Large open room, suspended floor - any hints?

[kay]

I live in a flat and my main living area consists of a large square area of 23 x 12 feet in size. The roof is made of thatch, slanted, and rather tall - 10.5 ft to the lowest slanted points, 18.5 ft to the highest point. This gives me a total volume of 3300 cu. ft. There is a upstairs area which is roughly half the room footprint, 11 x 12 ft, which is just a suspended wooden floor. For a number of reasons my girlfriend and I have decided to dedicate this area to entertainment. Here are two pictures to give you some idea:

http://photos5.flickr.com/5361349_75d6699571.jpg
http://photos5.flickr.com/5403903_e476368972.jpg

Now the roof being 1) slanted, and 2) thatch, I expect I won't have many issues with sound reflection. The front and back walls are parallel however there is a large fabric hang on the wall behind the couch, a bookshelf on the one side, and open space on the other (there are thick velvet curtains downstairs).

Is there much I can do to make things sound better or am I just stuck with a compromised environment? I will probably get a set of stands for my rear speakers and move them around to their ideal positions whenever listening/watching, and get two granite/marble slabs made up for the front speakers as to reduce floor vibration.

I am planning on using floor-standing speakers for the front, possibly Diamond 8.4 (86db sensitivity, 6ohm "nominal" impedance) with matching Diamond centre and surround speakers, Pioneer DV-575A player, and a Yamaha RX-V450 (rated 85wpc). Do you guys feel this should be enough to fill the room? (Will most likely never use the top half of the power-scale on the amp...) Any mis-matched components? I currently have a cheap set of cubed speakers and they do the trick for movies, music leaves a lot to be desired however.

Another big question mark in my plan is whether I should use monopole or bipole rear surrounds - I feel that since one wall is effectively "missing" from the h/t room, a bipole will not be a good idea since the ambience sounds won't bounce back. Also, since I have limited space around the couch, I would like to put the surrounds on stands so they can be moved out of the way and closer to the wall when they're not in use, and aim them at the listeners whenever in use. Maybe I could add a bipole speaker on the wall as the rear surround channel later, as the RX-V450 has 6.1 outputs.

My budget is flexible as I'm building this piece by piece, however the choice of components should give you an indication of the price ranges I'm looking at. I am in South Africa and unfortunately prices locally are rather high - for example the RX-V450 retails for upwards of $500, compared to $200-300 in the USA. Also the choices of equipment are rather more limited, further complicating the decision-making process.

Anyhow, any advice and suggestions would be much appreciated by a total home theater newbie!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

My only concern is your speaker choice. At a 86 spl rating at 6 ohms, do you think your receiver will have the reserves to power them? You have an open area, and will need either an efficient speaker, or a receiver with lots of reserves. Just a thought. A rear bipole speaker, as long as it has equal drivers on both sides, would be perfect for the rear center. I have two bi/dipoles in an open room, and love them.

 

[kay]

I am not entirely sure what my choices in speakers are locally, however that is the aspect of the system that I'm doubting the most for the exact reasons that you point out. I recently found out that there is a local dealer of Mordaunt-Short and Cambridge Audio. Their Avant speakers look really great on pictures, and specs are excellent (8 ohm, 90 db). Paired to an Azur 540R receiver, I've no doubts it will outperform the Yammy/Wharfedales. Might be beyond my budget at this point but I will definitely go listen as those two (M-S and Cambridge) seem to be getting excellent reviews.

 

[saurabh]

Wow, its a really good decorated house, I love these kind of houses. Anyway, the placement of your TV/Speakers and their height will also determine the sound quality....any floor diagrams to depict that ????.

 

[kay]

Wow, its a really good decorated house, I love these kind of houses. Anyway, the placement of your TV/Speakers and their height will also determine the sound quality....any floor diagrams to depict that ????.

Thanks, saurabh! It's mainly thanks to my girlfriend's efforts Not a lot of space but a great place to call home.

Here is a floor diagram of the loft. The red circles are the proposed speaker locations. The purple circles are where I could potentially place bookshelf speakers instead of front floor-standers.

I thought of replacing the whole TV rack/cupboard thingy (orange bar) but we made it ourselves and it's kind of special to us, so not likely that it will go. Pity in a way, because it takes up a lot of space we can't use for anything now. With a less wide TV rack, the floor-standing speakers could go on either side of the TV. The TV rack/shelf consists of 3 large boxes so I can't place a subwoofer or a speaker with a back-firing port as I fear it might cause booming. I am thinking of putting in some glass shelves in there and storing CDs and DVDs, maybe books inside. Right now it houses my MP3 jukebox PC, Wi-Fi access point, and a shared printer. Thinking of moving that lot elsewhere though. The receiver might have to go on top, next to the TV, for better ventilation.

Any suggestions for subwoofer placement? It will probably be the last addition to the system so not thinking too hard about it at the moment.

The couch can be (and is) moved closer to the TV when watching movies - we're getting a 42" TV soon so that may not be necessary anymore. The coffee table is rather large, with a glass top - I guess some sort of table cloth would be good to minimize reflections as it's usually completely bare.

The purple trapezoid behind the couch is where I could place a bipolar rear surround speaker in future. As for the rears, I'm currently thinking small monopoles on stands that can easily be moved into the corners when not in use. Space really is at a premium as you can see from the distances in the diagram

 

[saurabh]

okay, that explains it all and I will divide this into two parts....what is advisable and what is not

What is not advisable......

- Using the bookshelf speakers, primarily because they are behind the center speakers, they should be in line or slightly ahead of the center speakers.

- The coffee table is in direct path of sound......not good.

- Your sofa has a solid wall behind it, which means lots of sound reflection and boomy bass. A bookshelf with lots of books of differnt sizes is a good absorber for the wall behind the sofa.

What is advisable.............

- If you can bring the front left and right inline with the center speaker for shelf placement.
- Prefer Floor stands,keep then ahead of center speaker(as you have shown). keep the tweeter of the speakers at ear levels and keep the speakers slightly towed in (experiment) and towards the listener(use a laser pointer to determine the direction. Angle 20-30 Deg.
- Try to bring the sofa 1-2 ft ahead of current position.Place the surrounds at 6ft height towards the back of the sofa (not behind) as you have depicted, directed towards each other.
-The Sub can be placed in the corner of Bookshelf and TV shelf otherwise alternatively in the TV shelf bottom directed towards the listener.

- Since you will place the Surrounds quite close to the Sofa, keep the delay levels high 15-20ms.

Always remember, the HTS is for our listening pleasure so try to mix it with the decor at a level with which you are comfortable. There are always alternatives.

 

[kay]

- Using the bookshelf speakers, primarily because they are behind the center speakers, they should be in line or slightly ahead of the center speakers.

I knew that actually! I read somewhere they should be ahead in fact, so they form a slight arc with the centre speaker.

- The coffee table is in direct path of sound......not good.

That's not going anywhere The most I could do about that is use a table cloth or make sure there's always some mags scattered on top. The other problem is light reflected from the TV on the glass top, so I'm thinking about what the most aesthetical solution would be.

- Your sofa has a solid wall behind it, which means lots of sound reflection and boomy bass. A bookshelf with lots of books of differnt sizes is a good absorber for the wall behind the sofa.

There is a fabric hang right behind it (you can see it in one of the pics I posted above). Would that help at all or is it largely transparent to sound?

- If you can bring the front left and right inline with the center speaker for shelf placement.

Floor-standers are most likely at this point, but yes, I can.

- Prefer Floor stands,keep then ahead of center speaker(as you have shown). keep the tweeter of the speakers at ear levels and keep the speakers slightly towed in (experiment) and towards the listener(use a laser pointer to determine the direction. Angle 20-30 Deg.

Will do.

- Try to bring the sofa 1-2 ft ahead of current position.Place the surrounds at 6ft height towards the back of the sofa (not behind) as you have depicted, directed towards each other.

So they should be level with the listeners' heads and aimed directly at them?

-The Sub can be placed in the corner of Bookshelf and TV shelf otherwise alternatively in the TV shelf bottom directed towards the listener.

Is it a bad idea to place it right next to the couch and why? I've seen people do that with twin subs, but I'm not going that far. In fact the sub is the last thing on my plan but I'm just curious.

- Since you will place the Surrounds quite close to the Sofa, keep the delay levels high 15-20ms.

Noted.

Cool! Thanks for all the tips, some useful info in there

 

[saurabh]

There is a fabric hang right behind it (you can see it in one of the pics I posted above). Would that help at all or is it largely transparent to sound?

Well it would definitely help to an extent.

So they should be level with the listeners' heads and aimed directly at them?

No, they should be atleast 2-3 ft above the listeners ear level in seated position (thats why I said 6 ft) and directed towards each other (not at the listener) to create a balanced surround soundstage.

Is it a bad idea to place it right next to the couch and why? I've seen people do that with twin subs, but I'm not going that far. In fact the sub is the last thing on my plan but I'm just curious.

hmmmm.......the LFE sounds are directionless, that means no matter where you place it they will engulf the complete room, but yes placing them too close to the sofa can annoy the person seated there, so better to keep some distance. Also placing the SUB in a corner will help it gain 5-6 DB due to the corner walls (if you can find one in your room ).

 

[kay]

I suppose now I need to get me the speakers Thanks for your help, saurabh!