Just checked out the RS-25

J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
but I didn't get to see what it REALLY could do, ime. Good room, with black ceiling and front, dark red side walls, dark grey carpet. Not as good as my room though, even though my ceiling is white. This room was much more light reflective. However, a lot of this probably also has to do with my screen being a retro-reflector, and my curtains just absorb better than dark walls do. And black carpet still beats dark grey carpet. There was an utter lack of acoustical treatments. Front stage consisting of smaller Martin Logan electrostats. They were much less reflective visually than I would have suspected (never really noticed them), but then again they were placed at a considerable distance from the image.

It is not calibrated, simply OTB, like everything else at this place. :rolleyes:

The PJ was angled up considerably, and at first I asked if it was to induce extra contrast by way of vertical shift, but they said it was because the previous RS2 had a lens setup that was heavier than the PJ itself, and they did that to help out with the weight's effect. Upon asking, he didn't know which lens it was offhand (though he installed it), and I glanced at it and it did not say any name brand written in plain sight. I didn't want to bother him in looking it up.

The screen was a high gloss Draper, cinemascope, fixed, but since there was no longer a scope setup, and what I saw was Transformers with the full "16:9" shrunk to fit, so that black bars were present both at the top, bottom, and sides. I guess at a very rough 105" image (I think the Draper might be 132"). The screen was placed much too high, IMO. Before I continue, I want to note the choice of screen and room setup plays huge roles. I am now even more convinced that ambient light control of the room is the number one most important thing to PQ in a dedicated HT. Lastly, everything I might say here is absolutely worthless unless I had my own PJ and the RS25 side by side.

What was interesting about the doubling of black bars was that I could see the PJs absolute blacks versus the "real" absolute black on the sides. There was a considerable difference, and I noted that the PJs absolute blacks were significantly higher than my own even on a retroreflector.

Therefore, I know for a fact that this PJ, *if* calibrated, could look pretty darn amazing.

The pic had superb contrast, and gosh I'd like to know how much better it could look like when calibrated. Then I'd like to put something else on beside Transformers, which IMO is just not reference material.

The saturation of green was barely there, I think, but it was better than the OTB of my own RS1 for sure. The saturation of reds was much more similar, imo.

It also looked smoother, and freer from noise, however, the image is a fraction of my own display. I also do not know how much of this effect is specifically dependent on other things such as quality of optics, video processing, and convergence.

I don't know, but with the onboard CMS being the most important feature on this unit for a videophile, why on Earth they would not have it calibrated is beyond me. I just realized this entire spiel is useless, but I just wanted to share, and thanks for reading.

Final 2 cents: OTB, simply not worth the $$$ coming from my RS1. Final judgment is held until I see one that is calibrated (and why do I think that very well might not ever happen, lol).

I just keep repeating myself, but an uncalibrated RS25 for demo is just, like . . . an . . . oxymoron . . . er, lemme think of a more fitting word . . . maybe pointless? Oh, I don't know.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
So just to be clear in my semi inebriated state that this was at a dealer? Well I guess you wallet is glad that it did not look better than your RS1 or you may have been tempted.:D

In a way I am disappointed that you were not able to really get a feeling how much better it may be than your existing projector. If you were seriously interested would they let you demo it at home?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
adk, AFAIK, this place is a dealer for dealers. A supplier. I think anyways. I got an in, because my AV installer friend is a long time friend of this guy (like 20 years).

In some ways it DID look better than my RS1. The most immediate thing I noted was that the contrast was superior. Particularly at lower levels, and what's most impressive about that was that the full dynamic range, I think anyways, was not achieved due to my surely wildly inaccurate assessment that the "black floor" was too high. This is what makes me suspect how phenomenal it *might* look like.

I should also note that the clearness/smoothness probably somehow combines with the superior contrast in some way dynamic way to help me notice this. Who knows man, because I sure don't!

However, if I reduced my screen size, it surely would look much closer with the clearness effect, but this is all wild speculation.

I didn't note before that the rack was loaded with Marantz, and the source was a Panasonic bdp, I think it was the BD80. They also had Sammy LED, a couple of Panasonics, one of which I think might've been a Z1, but I didn't really check these things out, heck, there was a RS25 with dedicated room!

In my own setup (with a ton of different variables), I am actually just as happy with my own absolute blacks, if not happier. It's probably due to a number of things, besides the obvious in screen size, but also brighter (I think?) PJ (yet uncalibrated) with a relatively new bulb. Then again, my bulb is also relatively new.

edit: I forgot to answer the last Q. I actually don't want to demo it at home, or even think about buying it. If I even upgrade in the near future (quite doubtful), I'd try to land an open box, refurbed, or used RS20 most likely. It would have to be a killer deal. I wanted to see this in store, and ask about the RS2 that it replaced, which I heard he is trying hard to sell. Let's just say that our respective offers were about two Grand Canyons apart, hahahaha.
 
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S

Sherardp

Audioholic
When setup properly the RS25 is a jaw dropping experience. I would even go so far as to say with the RS15 you would be in awe as there are a number of improvements. Did you get to play with JVC's clearmotion drive settings? I'm really interested in seeing how it would handle motion than anything else. Colors/black levels are already top notch to me for the prices the JVC's go for. I decided to hold out this yr, but next yr I'm in it for sure. I'm hoping they continue to bring something to the table.

If you want I have a calibrated RS10 here that you can demo, I'm sure it will floor you as well. For the price I still think the RS1 is a superb projector. If I were buying today I would buy one over a Epson 8100/Panny 4K.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
When setup properly the RS25 is a jaw dropping experience. I would even go so far as to say with the RS15 you would be in awe as there are a number of improvements. Did you get to play with JVC's clearmotion drive settings? I'm really interested in seeing how it would handle motion than anything else. Colors/black levels are already top notch to me for the prices the JVC's go for. I decided to hold out this yr, but next yr I'm in it for sure. I'm hoping they continue to bring something to the table.
TBH, I am pretty happy with my setup. I just get excited about stuff, you know. Could be anything really, subs, speakers, processors, and of course projectors. :D

Unless I miraculously run into a steal, I really doubt I'll be upgrading anytime soon. I would really like to have the CMS, that would be first benefit I'd want, I think. Something to try to nerd out on.

I was paying much more attn to my own absolute blacks on the black bars, and they aren't as good as I thought they were when I was viewing the rs25. The dual sets of black bars at the demo surely just made it more prominent.

The motion looked very good, better than mine, but the display represented only a fraction of my own viewing angle.

As usual, this is all absolutely meaningless, as far as my own postings here, unless they were side by side. I don't want to do a side by side, because my bank account says I have absolutely no business even thinking about a Rs25. In fact, if it wasn't clear, I was seeing if there was a possible hidden steal on the Rs2, even if it wasn't for my own, perhaps for someone else.

Now, as far as reading, educating myself, yes, I know the Rs25 is in a different category of projectors from the rs1. As moments in time go, with a perceived relative value in benefits to price, I am pretty much forced to sit still, I think.

But, it was a fun demo, and again, if anything, it just made me appreciate my own setup all the more, and it drove home the point that reflective light control is really a huge thing for the overall effect.

Just as it goes with sound quality, at least imo, a decent set of speakers in a proper room will outperform top shelf speakers in a poor room. One can save a lot of money in the search for greater contrast by addressing the room.

Yes, my mild disappointment came precisely because it was not, as you say, properly setup. Just OTB settings. Bah.

Otherwise, even coming from a performance-first type of guy (at least that's how I like to think of myself), I can now also more understand how the aesthetics and presentation of the room is important, if just for new guests. It seems like I am contradicting myself there, but I don't think I am. They are both important to the experience.

That said, I'd much rather the performance-first setup of this theater:

performance

than the aesthetics-first setup of this theater

aesthetics

That's just me. :)
 
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