JBL L100t3 - Classic Vintage 3 way vs. Modern Speakers

[Seth=L]

This is a thread born of curiosity, no urgency. I happen to have some JBL L100t3s on the sales floor and while it's not exactly a suitable acoustic environment the definitely have a certain presence to them, and they sound very "big".

How does a speaker like this stack up compared to modern speakers? The things I wonder about are the possibly inferior drivers and crossover (just because of how old they are) and the large flat front baffle.

Picture is for example only.

 

[Seth=L]

I'm surprised, no feedback at all. No one is familiar?

 

[Swerd]

I haven't heard those, so I can only make general comments. Were the L100t3s made in the late 1980s? Compared to their namesake, the L100 from the 1970s (which I own & modified), there are some obvious changes. It might have been an improvement over the 70s version, but that's only a guess.

• All three t3 drivers are different from the L100. The woofers look like they have foam surrounds. Are they in good condition?
• The cabinet is much larger. The older version's cabinet was too small for it's woofer, causing an exaggerated bass peak in the 70-100 Hz range.
• Unlike the L100, the t3 actually has a real crossover network (see schematic below), with frequencies of 800 Hz (woofer-mid) and 4.5 kHz (mid-tweeter). Is it a good design? I don't know, but I'm certain it's better than what was in the L100s from the 70s.

 

[Seth=L]

I haven't heard those, so I can only make general comments. Were the L100t3s made in the late 1980s? Compared to their namesake, the L100 from the 1970s (which I own & modified), there are some obvious changes. It might have been an improvement over the 70s version, but that's only a guess.

• All three t3 drivers are different from the L100. The woofers look like they have foam surrounds. Are they in good condition?
• The cabinet is much larger. The older version's cabinet was too small for it's woofer, causing an exaggerated bass peak in the 70-100 Hz range.
• Unlike the L100, the t3 actually has a real crossover network (see schematic below), with frequencies of 800 Hz (woofer-mid) and 4.5 kHz (mid-tweeter). Is it a good design? I don't know, but I'm certain it's better than what was in the L100s from the 70s.

The speakers came in with surround dry rot. I had the foam replaced on the company's behalf for $144.06 and got the woofers back about a week ago. I installed them and have them connected to a little Denon Midi receiver that I brought from home (Denon D-60). The receiver probably only musters up 15-20 watts per channel if it's lucky. Usually just listen to radio, but they sound impressive with the radio and I had the thought to play Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture through it with my phone and those cannon blasts were awesome. The speakers are reasonably efficient at 91dB so the puny receiver was able to take them to levels of output that were respectable. We have hard concrete floors and the speakers are behind a display case.

This picture shows how close to the wall they are and they are rear ported. I don't have many options as far as placement goes because I do not want customers removing the grills, poking the speakers, and doing otherwise misplaced things.

Obviously they are quite large so it shouldn't surprise me how dynamic they are, but they do. If they sound this good in the store I can only imagine how they would sound at home. The only thing I can't get a feel for in the store is how well they would create a stereo image, how linear they are, listener fatigue potential, etc...

 

[Swerd]

Obviously they are quite large so it shouldn't surprise me how dynamic they are, but they do. If they sound this good in the store I can only imagine how they would sound at home.

I'm not surprised at how dynamic they are. That's what old JBL speakers were known for.

The only thing I can't get a feel for in the store is how well they would create a stereo image, how linear they are, listener fatigue potential, etc...

Those 2nd order electronic filters I see in the schematic, could combine with the inherent roll-offs of the drivers (if this speaker was properly designed). This might allow the acoustic behavior of the crossovers to be more like 4th order. You are mainly hearing that 12" woofer crossed at 800 Hz to a 4" mid range which goes up to 4.5 kHz. That has the possibility of good imaging.

What I'm trying to say is that nothing I see in the general design would prevent these speakers from sounding good. Take them home and try them. I bet they're heavy.

 

[fmw]

I haven't heard them but there is a lot to be said for three way speakers that feature a 15" woofer in a big enclosure. People don't want big speakers any more, it seems. I know my wife doesn't. I wouldn't worry about the crossovers assuming they are working OK and the drivers should be fine. I would expect them to perform pretty well even when compared to current day speakers.

 

[Seth=L]

I should have photographed the crossovers when I had the woofer out I suppose. I know the midrange is enclosed to isolate it from the woofer. The woofer hardly moved at all when I played the cannon fire in 1812, granted it wasn't turned up super loud, but loud enough to startle my employee. These speakers are the kind of speakers that make me want to listen to all of my music all over again just to see how the sound would differ.

I played the cannons from 1812 at home on my Boston VR-M50s (crossed over at 80hz with the Paradigm PS-1000) and it just didn't have the same energy. The subwoofer goes a bit lower, but lacked the attack of the JBLs and the Bostons left much to be desired in dynamics. I may put the Infinity IL10s in their place and try again to see if there's a difference in dynamics since they're a larger speaker.

Anyone know what the best Telarc recording is of the 1812 overture? I found several difference CDs online that had a range of different orchestras playing that piece, not sure which would be the best. The best one I have found on youtube seems to have obscene levels of distortion on the cannon fires on both my speakers and headphones. I'm not sure if these is just because of the recording, compression on youtube, or my speakers & headphones limitations.

 

[Seth=L]

People don't want big speakers any more, it seems. I know my wife doesn't.

I'm a bachelor, no problems there for me other than me. I do like small speakers because they're easy to move and fit into more applications, but obviously they have their caveats.

 

[zieglj01]

Anyone know what the best Telarc recording is of the 1812 overture? I found several difference CDs online that had a range of different orchestras playing that piece, not sure which would be the best.

I would check into this one

 

[Seth=L]

I would check into this one

I've been doing some light research and it seems no one can agree which one is best. I'm just wanting to find one that has real cannons, and doesn't distort (maybe that's impossible with my equipment, it wasn't that loud though).

 

[slipperybidness]

I've been doing some light research and it seems no one can agree which one is best. I'm just wanting to find one that has real cannons, and doesn't distort (maybe that's impossible with my equipment, it wasn't that loud though).

Send a PM to TLSguy....he'll set you straight.

 

[Swerd]

I've been doing some light research and it seems no one can agree which one is best. I'm just wanting to find one that has real cannons, and doesn't distort (maybe that's impossible with my equipment, it wasn't that loud though).

There are probably too many different recordings of that for any one to be a clear cut favorite. When all else fails, get a Telarc disc that was recorded all digitally.

If you ask TLS Guy, he'll say the 1812 Overture is junk . Go straight for JS Bach on the organ. Something that includes Toccata and Fugue in D minor.

http://www.amazon.com/Organ-Blaster-Best-Michael-Murray/dp/B000003CXP/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1452123398&sr=1-12&keywords=Telarc+organ

 

[Seth=L]

Interesting. It never hurts to ask.

 

[Swerd]

Interesting. It never hurts to ask.

Search on ArchivMusic http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/main.jsp;jsessionid=B0C972E36AB3A427055F1743FF0B0C4B

If you search for Tchaikovsky – 1812 Overture, you'll see there are 121 recordings available.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=11958&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=3192

If ArchivMusic recommends a particular recording, as they did, it usually is pretty good.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=3530
I don't know if they used a real field gun, but it is a Telarc recording.

 

[highfigh]

I haven't heard those, so I can only make general comments. Were the L100t3s made in the late 1980s? Compared to their namesake, the L100 from the 1970s (which I own & modified), there are some obvious changes. It might have been an improvement over the 70s version, but that's only a guess.

• All three t3 drivers are different from the L100. The woofers look like they have foam surrounds. Are they in good condition?
• The cabinet is much larger. The older version's cabinet was too small for it's woofer, causing an exaggerated bass peak in the 70-100 Hz range.
• Unlike the L100, the t3 actually has a real crossover network (see schematic below), with frequencies of 800 Hz (woofer-mid) and 4.5 kHz (mid-tweeter). Is it a good design? I don't know, but I'm certain it's better than what was in the L100s from the 70s.

Yours are the L100 Century, right? How did you remove the crossover? I checked out a set that had dirty controls and then replaced the crappy terminals but didn't want to damage the foil on hte front that has the make/model and cover the last screw for the crossover.

One cap on the mid and tweeter is their idea of a crossover, eh? That's weak.

What did you do to yours? I read about a crossover that's supposed to smooth the response a lot and make them much better, even if the frequency extremes aren't very extended.

 

[highfigh]

I've been doing some light research and it seems no one can agree which one is best. I'm just wanting to find one that has real cannons, and doesn't distort (maybe that's impossible with my equipment, it wasn't that loud though).

The Telarc version has real cannon but non-existent distortionis hard to do unless they compressed the recording.

 

[Swerd]

Yours are the L100 Century, right? How did you remove the crossover? I checked out a set that had dirty controls and then replaced the crappy terminals but didn't want to damage the foil on hte front that has the make/model and cover the last screw for the crossover.

One cap on the mid and tweeter is their idea of a crossover, eh? That's weak.

What did you do to yours? I read about a crossover that's supposed to smooth the response a lot and make them much better, even if the frequency extremes aren't very extended.

Yes, that was me. I had L100As since 1973 with the 2 cap crossovers. I built new crossovers and installed them inside the cabinets while bypassing the old ones, leaving them in place.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-vintage-jbl-west-coast-sound-becomes-the….25014/

 

[highfigh]

Yes, that was me. I had L100As since 1973 with the 2 cap crossovers. I built new crossovers and installed them inside the cabinets while bypassing the old ones, leaving them in place.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-vintage-jbl-west-coast-sound-becomes-the….25014/

Seeing it again, I do remember that thread. If I'm correct, you disconnected the original crossover and connected the new one without using the L-Pads, right?

I'm sure that these (in their original configuration) can sound good in some rooms, with some music, but with music that was mixed on better speakers and played back with better speakers, the sound of the mix is glaringly apparent. I heard a Don Henley song last night and it was pretty weak, but it used to sound good when it came out and was played on the radio. Probably had a lot to do with their processing for broadcast and the local station that would have played it processes the crap out of the sound. When I heard these at the customer's house, they were OK, but to be honest, JBL sound was never my favorite- peaky mids and highs never did it, for me. I'll have to see if the owner of the ones I checked out would be interested in doing the upgrade.

 

[Seth=L]

Send a PM to TLSguy....he'll set you straight.

He did, on two counts. Just a few quick words from him and I'm no longer interested in taking the JBLs home. Company policies would have had me stuck with them if I bought them and I can't demo them at home first either. It would have been a royal pain in the arse anyway.

He also found this for me.

http://www.amazon.com/1812-Overture-Capriccio-Italien-Wellingtons/dp/B000PMFTE0

 

[Swerd]

Seeing it again, I do remember that thread. If I'm correct, you disconnected the original crossover and connected the new one without using the L-Pads, right?

Yes.

I'm sure that these (in their original configuration) can sound good in some rooms, with some music, but with music that was mixed on better speakers and played back with better speakers, the sound of the mix is glaringly apparent. I heard a Don Henley song last night and it was pretty weak, but it used to sound good when it came out and was played on the radio. Probably had a lot to do with their processing for broadcast and the local station that would have played it processes the crap out of the sound. When I heard these at the customer's house, they were OK, but to be honest, JBL sound was never my favorite- peaky mids and highs never did it, for me. I'll have to see if the owner of the ones I checked out would be interested in doing the upgrade.

I found the new crossovers made for much improved sound, regardless of the music. And I had been listening to them for over 30 years. So I was completely accustomed to their "old" sound.

The large peak, between 6 and 7 kHz (see below) was made by the mid range driver, which had no low-pass filter at all, and had a 1st order high-pass set at 1.5 kHz. As a result, any sound at roughly 800 Hz or higher could generate some ugly sounds, if the harmonics stimulated it in 6-7 kHz range.

The new crossover eliminated that