itunes vs. CD quality

[macersl]

Anyone know: If I buy a song off itunes and burn it to a CD will the sound quality be any less than if I went out and bought the CD?

 

[gnagel]

The quality of song downloaded from iTunes can be significantly worse than CD quality. Whether you can detect the difference largely depends upon the source that you are using to play the music.

 

[agarwalro]

iTunes provides MP3's recorded at 128kbps (some tracks are available at higher bit rates). If you intend to use them on a portable player at the gym or during your daily commute, its sufficient. But if you intend to do some critical listening, you can forget about it.

If you can spare the disc space, use at least 192kbps encoding with VBR enabled.

Here is a link with the same track encoded at different bit rates and formats. Now you can decide which one works for you,

http://www.xciv.org/~meta/audio-shootout/

 

[racquetman]

This is an older thread, but it needs a few corrections.

First of all, if you are buying from Itunes you are getting 128 kbps protected AAC files, not MPEG-1 layer 3 files (MP3). I'm not aware of any songs available at higher bit rates than that, so agarwalro would have to point out a specific example to convince me of that (he got the mp3 part wrong, and I think he's wrong about the higher bit rate availability).

If you burn a CD with songs you bought from Itunes, they are going to be protected AAC files (unless they are converted), which will probably not play in anything other than Itunes. If you convert them to another format (let's say AAC to MP3), you would be making a lossy to lossy codec conversion which will surely do nothing for sound quality - you will then also lose all the id tagging info I believe.

Anyway, if you are listening to a song for the quality, you are certainly better off buying the CD and then you can do whatever you want with it - convert it to a WAV file or an Apple Lossless file for the highest quality, or rip it using any other codec out there at any bitrate you want.

 

[Steve1000]

Not true... I believe it'll be a non-protected PCM format 44.1 khz sample rate CD with 128 kbps AAC sound quality. (I'm not too good with the technical jargon.) The point being, you won't lose any sound quality from the AAC file and it'll be unprotected.

Otherwise your info sounds pretty good, though I'm not sure if you'd really lose the tagging info through transcoding in itunes. I kind of doubt it, but there's an easy way to find out.

I tend to agree with your bottom line though... unless you are just after a specific song or two from the 70s or earlier or a hit parade collection or trying some new music out or something, better to get the CD and not reward all this digital rights management and lossy compression in an original purchased product.

If you burn a CD with songs you bought from Itunes, they are going to be protected AAC files (unless they are converted), which will probably not play in anything other than Itunes.

 

[racquetman]

Not true... I believe it'll be a non-protected PCM format 44.1 khz sample rate CD with 128 kbps AAC sound quality. (I'm not too good with the technical jargon.) The point being, you won't lose any sound quality from the AAC file and it'll be unprotected.

You have 3 options for burning with Itunes.

Burn as an audio CD - like you said above, which severely limits the number of songs you are going to get on a disc and you will lose the tagging (unless this has changed in the newest version of Itunes, I haven't tried it).

Burn as an mp3 CD - you would have to convert the AAC files to mp3 files (the lossy to lossy conversion I was speaking of). Unless you are talking about CDs you ripped to Itunes yourself, and you set the software to rip them as mp3s.

Burn as data CD or DVD - the default way of burning the protected AAC files as is with all tagging and everything the same.

So, yes, you were correct in your statement, but I don't know why anyone would want to only rip 10 to 15 songs to a CD and lose all the tagging info (you certainly haven't gained anything). My friend did that with a bunch of his music until I explained to him that he would be better off ripping them as data CDs. I guess if you bought the songs on Itunes and you really want to listen to them on CD in your car or whatever, then that is your only option if the player won't play mp3 files (it certainly won't be playing protected AAC files). You can obviously send a line out from your soundcard to your receiver, but that won't help if you want to go mobile with your music. That's what the ipod is for, right?!

 

[Steve1000]

Your posts are interesting. I honestly don't know the answer to the slight differences in our guesses. They would be fairly easy to figure out if it was worth anybody's time, but it's probably not. But again I do strongly agree with your bottom line. When in doubt, just buy the CD and lose the digital rights management and lossy compression baggage..

FWIW, I often edit wave files from LPs using a wave editor and burn them to CD using musicmatch. Musicmatch converts the wave file titles (the names of the songs) and the CD name (I use the album name) to CD Text that works in a CD text-ready CD player. So then I have my treasured LP on a CD-text CD. I then rip the CD into itunes and itunes does a great job looking up the tagging information and filling in artist, composer, fixing song titles, etc., when it imports the files. I rip to MP3 because even though I use an ipod I don't want to get locked into AAC.

Also, FWIW, the VBR MP3 encoder moving from Itunes 4 to Itunes 6 has undergone very substantial revision. I just discovered this a few days ago when I downloaded the upgrade. For a given setting (e.g., 192 kbps highest quality vbr) the resulting bitrates are very different now. The revised vbr encoder appears to be much more sensitive to the complexity of the recording, which is a good thing, IMHO.

You have 3 options for burning with Itunes...

 

[racquetman]

Your posts are interesting. I honestly don't know the answer to the slight differences in our guesses. They would be fairly easy to figure out if it was worth anybody's time, but it's probably not. But again I do strongly agree with your bottom line. When in doubt, just buy the CD and lose the digital rights management and lossy compression baggage..

FWIW, I often edit wave files from LPs using a wave editor and burn them to CD using musicmatch. Musicmatch converts the wave file titles (the names of the songs) and the CD name (I use the album name) to CD Text that works in a CD text-ready CD player. So then I have my treasured LP on a CD-text CD. I then rip the CD into itunes and itunes does a great job looking up the tagging information and filling in artist, composer, fixing song titles, etc., when it imports the files. I rip to MP3 because even though I use an ipod I don't want to get locked into AAC.

Also, FWIW, the VBR MP3 encoder moving from Itunes 4 to Itunes 6 has undergone very substantial revision. I just discovered this a few days ago when I downloaded the upgrade. For a given setting (e.g., 192 kbps highest quality vbr) the resulting bitrates are very different now. The revised vbr encoder appears to be much more sensitive to the complexity of the recording, which is a good thing, IMHO.

When importing you do have a lot more flexibility as far as options - as you've mentioned in your last paragraph.

When burning, however, you are limited to the options I mentioned in my last post. I think Apple wants you to stick with their AAC files, so they make it difficult for you to work with other formats.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

When importing you do have a lot more flexibility as far as options - as you've mentioned in your last paragraph.

When burning, however, you are limited to the options I mentioned in my last post. I think Apple wants you to stick with their AAC files, so they make it difficult for you to work with other formats.

Wrong, Apple does not make it difficult to work with any format. With iTunes you can import several ways. Apple lossless, AAC, AIFF, MP3 or WAV. When burning you can burn Audio CD, MP3 CD, or Data CD/DVD. What else do you need?

Songs from the itunes store are 128 kbs AAC which is just a little south of near CD quality. In a car or on a portable, they are fine. Compared to the original CD on a good system you can hear the difference. They are not bad, but I would not buy any serious listening music off itunes. I do wish Apple would allow various options when downloading music. I would love to be able to download the full quality AIFF files to burn to a cd

 

[racquetman]

Wrong, Apple does not make it difficult to work with any format. With iTunes you can import several ways. Apple lossless, AAC, AIFF, MP3 or WAV. When burning you can burn Audio CD, MP3 CD, or Data CD/DVD. What else do you need?

Songs from the itunes store are 128 kbs AAC which is just a little south of near CD quality. In a car or on a portable, they are fine. Compared to the original CD on a good system you can hear the difference. They are not bad, but I would not buy any serious listening music off itunes. I do wish Apple would allow various options when downloading music. I would love to be able to download the full quality AIFF files to burn to a cd

What exactly am I wrong about?

You just repeated everything I said in my other posts. The more difficult part is getting your music files into another format. If you bought them, they're AAC files. If you want to burn them as another format (say mp3), then you will need to convert them. That's the more difficult part. That's all I'm saying.

If we are talking about importing, then you have all the flexibility you probably need - as you stated.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Donald, If your talking just about the itunes store files, then yes they are difficult to convert without a third party software because of the DRM. Did I say Jhymn, ahem never mind does not work with newest itunes yet. Anyway I thought you meant difficult in general. So we are both right

 

[racquetman]

Donald, If your talking just about the itunes store files, then yes they are difficult to convert without a third party software because of the DRM. Did I say Jhymn, ahem never mind does not work with newest itunes yet. Anyway I thought you meant difficult in general. So we are both right

Nah, Itunes is really pretty easy to work with as you showed with the screenshots. I was only talking about converting the protected AAC files as you figured. So, yes, we were both right .

 

[Sheep]

I buy CD's, becasue they are significantly better then 128kbs...

Also, I usually end up hating the single on all CD's. I always find the other songs to sound much better, and less lame. Plus, the bands I listen to are probly not on itunes.

SheepStar

 

[furrycute]

Why would anyone want to pay for 128kbs encoded songs?

I would only pay for CD quality or higher quality songs.

As things stand now, I only buy CDs.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Why would anyone want to pay for 128kbs encoded songs?

Well my wife for one, and it saved me money from having to buy the CD's of all the 80's junk she loves She only listens to them on her ipod and that is what they were intended for to begin with.

 

[racquetman]

Why would anyone want to pay for 128kbs encoded songs?

What would anyone want to pay $15 for one or two good songs and the 80 to 90% filler that is junk? 44.1 khz / 16 bit junk is still junk .

Seriously though, CDs are way over priced in my opinion. I won't give the record labels the satisfaction of their huge markup.

Most music listening nowadays isn't critical, sit-in-the-sweetspot and enjoy type listening. It's on the go, or in the background at home or work. Quality isn't that important for most people. Then you add the convenience of sitting at your computer and buying a song you like for 99 cents, instead of taking a chance on a whole CD and hating most of it. Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

..... Plus, the bands I listen to are probly not on itunes.

SheepStar

I dunno, they've got some pretty obscure stuff at the music store. Sure they may not be day & date with som of the smallest indy labels, and you don't have any Beatles..... But its alot more diverse than people give credit for (certainly a better selection than Columbiahouse or Yourmusic.com).

 

[CaliHwyPatrol]

I've gotten a select few songs from Itunes that have been 192kbps, but the majority have definitely been 128.

~Chuck

 

[Sheep]

I dunno, they've got some pretty obscure stuff at the music store. Sure they may not be day & date with som of the smallest indy labels, and you don't have any Beatles..... But its alot more diverse than people give credit for (certainly a better selection than Columbiahouse or Yourmusic.com).

Well, check for me then.

Poison the Well
Death By Stereo
The Blood Brothers
The Mars Volta
Thrice (probly has them)
Every time I die
Killswitch Engage
Atreyu

SheepStar

 

[nibhaz]

Well, check for me then.

Poison the Well
Death By Stereo
The Blood Brothers
The Mars Volta
Thrice (probly has them)
Every time I die
Killswitch Engage
Atreyu

SheepStar

iTunes has every single one of those groups. Nothing to esoteric there, if your into that scene.