It's 2022, any mid-tier AVR's with Center & Front pre-amp Out?

[MalVeauX]

Hey all,

I know, I know... 2022 is like going backwards in many ways.

But I'm wondering... where are the AVR's with pre-amp output for the Fronts & Center only? Don't want or need it for all channels and don't need a 9 channel or more receiver. Any 5 channel or 7 channel AVR's with modest specs and just pre-amp out for center & fronts? I see a few that are entry mid-tier with front pre-amp out, but they all seem to lack the center pre-amp out and that makes no sense to me as a home theater receiver.

Discussion:

Then again, maybe there's no point? A modern AVR can do the same job as a crippled AVR with some power amps in the 100~130 watt/8ohm per channel range, right? Do you all think its really at the 200+ watt per channel range that you need to go pre-amp and power amp for larger rooms or less efficient speakers? I probably don't even need 100 watts. Just thinking out loud and looking at what seems to be a super niche or non-existent product. For example, with fairly efficient speakers in the 89db or higher range, 50~80 watts is probably way plenty in a normal sized living room with normal ceiling height at about 7~8 feet distance to listening position. And of course, doubling the power is only +3db so going from an AVR that can do upwards of 100 watts to a poweramp that is solidly at 100~130 watts is really not doing anything at all except using more electricity and spending more money within the context of the same room and listening position. And of course then there's the idea of headroom...

So then we have the idea of a $600 receiver with $500 poweramp, versus a $1300 receiver.

Thoughts?

In my mind, I know that in a given room size with efficient speakers and relatively close listening positions, almost any modern AVR would be plenty for the speakers, especially if they're not having to perform a lot of the sub-bass as a series of subwoofers would handle that, further reducing any needs of he AVR in that way. So switching to an AVR with a poweramp setup would really produce no difference unless there was a headroom limit, but to even relieve such an issue like that, it would take tremendously more power for each +3db step. So really to make a poweramp addition worthwhile, it likely needs to be significantly more powerful than an AVR to even begin to matter.

Very best,

 

[Pogre]

I know that some Denon/Marantz models have an option for assigning amp channels and you can disconnect the internal amps from the fronts to preout to a separate amp. I know that's not quite what you're talking about. My receiver has a full set of preouts for every channel, but it's sorta in the same vein.

 

[ryanosaur]

Where is your budgetary threshold of mid-tier AVR?

I would argue that the Denon 3700 is a Mid-Tier product and has full pre-outs to match it's processing capabilities. The 2700 and 1700 do not, but would arguably also be classified as lower tier rather than Mid, especially the 1700.
The Onkyo RZ50 lines up with the Denon 3700 offering full Pre-outs.
The Yamaha A4A offers Pre-outs, with the A2A offering just Mains Pre-out +Sub.
*shrugs
Power of on-board Amps doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether Pre-outs are offered, rather complexity of circuitry used. I think it is telling that at a certain point it becomes all or nothing: they are offered or not.
It could likely be argued that Mid-tier AVRs are defined by the offering of Pre-Outs vs Speaker level output only, retailing at ~$1300+.

 

[MalVeauX]

It does indeed seem to be all or nothing in terms of pre-amp out; other than a few with front pre-amp out but none of the home theater channels (namely center, let alone surrounds), and that price point definitely is the $1k or more area, just to even get access to pre-amp output on any AVR or processor. Kind of an "it is what it is" thing.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

Can't imagine wanting an avr without a full set of pre-outs in the first place. A three channel option might be okay, but wonder if it makes much difference in the bigger picture to have a full set vs a limited set. The avrs with only L/R and sub pre-outs have never been particularly attractive to me....

 

[MalVeauX]

I find it strange that there are not more processors that are just processors with pre-amp output stages and that's it, other than stereo. The moment you get 3+ channels, it jumps. I'd love a little 5.1 or 5.2 processor. It just seems weird to me that you can get a 9+ channel processor or an AVR with the same channels and internal amplification for virtually the same cost. There's just nothing in between.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

I would think its just too small a market to have much different than we already have...at least in the determination by those making/branding/selling such gear....