Is using bare wire ok?

A. Vivaldi

A. Vivaldi

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Would simply using the bare wire for speaker cable terminations be ok? Is there any truth that the more obsticales placed in the signal path (banana plugs, etc.), the more the signal will be degraded?</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'>Bare wire is fine, but not the best for durability. Spades and plugs do not degrade the signal. That is more audiophile superstition*.

For that matter, gold plugs/spades do not transmit a signal any better than plain-Jane ones. They are more corrosion resistant and look pretty (&quot;audio jewelry&quot;)

The only possible issue is corrosion. That will cause gross errors like interrupted signals and crackling noises. You can go years without corrosion being an issue.

My speaker distribution box has those spring clip terminals into which you insert the bare wire. Purely for the sake of durability I tinned the wire with solder. For the screw terminals on my homebuilt speakers I used el cheapo Radio Shack spades. The electrons don't seem to mind a bit.  


*When you are tempted to wonder if something like a power cord, interconnect, or terminal will cause some signal degradation (or magical improvement), pause and consider the miles of cable, circuit board traces, resistors, capacitors, transformers, active electronics ranging from ICs to (maybe) tubes, switches, pots and God knows what else over which you have no control that the signal or power took to travel from the recording studio or power plant to your amp and/or speakers. Will that last few feet/millimeters/small fractions of an Ohm really make much of a difference after all that? If &quot;more devices in the signal path&quot;, wire terminations, etc. caused all that much degradation, your prized SACDs would sound like a long-distance call from Betelgeuse!</font>
 
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A. Vivaldi

A. Vivaldi

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Nobody told me that plugs/spades degraded the signal, I was just curious. Thanks for the lesson on the adventures of an electrical signal, but an obsessive audiophile would have something to rebuff you with...get your own power generator! That would solve all those annoying long distance, power plant problems. lol.
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E

EdR

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
Rip Van Woofer : Bare wire is fine, but not the best for durability. Spades and plugs do not degrade the signal. That is more audiophile superstition*.

&gt;&gt;&gt;snip&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
The only possible issue is corrosion. That will cause gross errors like interrupted signals and crackling noises. You can go years without corrosion being an issue.
My question is that if one uses 'solderless' connectors for either the banana or spade plugs, wouldn't you have exactly the same sitation re corrosion as you'd have by inserting the bare wire into the screw down terminals in the speakers, which afterall are just 'solderless' connectors.

That is, unless you're willing to solder on the bananas or spades, then all you've done is insert an additional interface into your signal path, and the bare wire to gold junction within the solderless plug would be prone to exactly the same problems as if it had been inserted directly into the speaker?</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
EdR : <font color='#000000'>My question is that if one uses 'solderless' connectors for either the banana or spade plugs, wouldn't you have exactly the same sitation re corrosion as you'd have by inserting the bare wire into the screw down terminals in the speakers, which afterall are just 'solderless' connectors.

That is, unless you're willing to solder on the bananas or spades, then all you've done is insert an additional interface into your signal path, and the bare wire to gold junction within the solderless plug would be prone to exactly the same problems as if it had been inserted directly into the speaker?</font>
<font color='#000000'>Yes, I'm sure your right about solderless connectors. But as I said, it would be years before corrosion becomes an issue. Meanwhile, every few years you could snip off the terminals, strip the 1/2&quot; or so to expose fresh wire, and crimp on new terminals. Repeat until your wire is too short. You will probably go to the Big Listening Room In The Sky before that....

As for solder being an additional interface in the signal path, see my previous comments!

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">an obsessive audiophile would have something to rebuff you with...get your own power generator!</td></tr></table>

Well, actually I started doing just that. But when word got out that UPS was delivering plutonium here the neighbors had a fit! Not to mention our nervous-Nellie govenment. I had to let all my Iraqi nuclear power consultants go...</font>
 
E

EdR

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
Rip Van Woofer : Yes, I'm sure your right about solderless connectors. But as I said, it would be years before corrosion becomes an issue. Meanwhile, every few years you could snip off the terminals, strip the 1/2&quot; or so to expose fresh wire, and crimp on new terminals. Repeat until your wire is too short. You will probably go to the Big Listening Room In The Sky before that....

As for solder being an additional interface in the signal path, see my previous comments!
HI Rip,

I think we're on the same page, but to clarify what I meant.  I mean, if putting the wire into the connector is functionally identical to putting it into the speaker binding post..why bother.  The extra interface I was referring to was between &lt;say&gt; the banana plug and the speaker.  Thus with a plug, you've got two possible &quot;jumps&quot; in the signal path, the bare wire to plug AND the plug to speaker.  If you just insert the bare ends of the wire into the binder posts, you only have one, and it would seem of similiar quality of the 'solderless' connection to the banana plug.  As a bi-wired 7 speaker set up would need 32 plugs a several bucks each, that significant money to be spent elsewhere (like on music! ;-)</font>
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
<font color='#000000'>Ah, yes, we are on the same page! Yes, money is always better spent on music!

Building the backyard nuke plant woulda been fun, though...</font>
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
<font color='#000000'>I can settle this easy, I once built a pair of speakers with all dynaudio parts and leap designed xovers, I had everything done except my binding post were left off the order and it would be a week before they could send me some. I built the speakers and hardwired the speaker cable directly to the xovers and routed it out the back through the port. Later when I finaly installed the speaker binding post, I never heard any difference in the sound. You cant get a better connection then soldered directly to the xover and it made no difference at all when I installed the speaker terminals.</font>
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
<font color='#000000'>I wouldn't expect a few milliohms of contact resistance to have anyt audible effect. &nbsp;I always find it amusing when exotic cable companies offer upgrades to jumpers and binding posts to stock units. &nbsp;Unless the stock units are corroded or damaged, I would just leave them be.</font>
 
E

EdR

Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
gene : <font color='#000000'>I wouldn't expect a few milliohms of contact resistance to have anyt audible effect.  I always find it amusing when exotic cable companies offer upgrades to jumpers and binding posts to stock units.  Unless the stock units are corroded or damaged, I would just leave them be.</font>
<font color='#000000'>So, based on what I've been reading, I availed myself of the SoundKing speaker wire sale at Part Express mentioned elsewhere in these forums (what a deal, about 30 cents/foot for 12 ga) in anticipation of a complete rewire when I upgrade my receiver/amplifier. &nbsp;My plan is bare wire into the speaker binding posts.

Gene, would you agree that this will give me as good results as pretty much anything else for a heck of a bunch less money?</font>
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
<font color='#000000'>I will let the measurements speak for themselves


Speaker Cable Face Off I

Personally I would use their 10AWG wire which costs a little more, but has lower resistance and inductance but of course I am an Audioholic and overkill is not in my vocabulary &nbsp;
</font>
 
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EdR

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Yes, I read it prior to ordering. &nbsp;Nice piece of work! &nbsp;Nice audio hang out too. &nbsp;I was getting tired of reading about how buffing out the plug on your power-cord will really open up the highs and improve the soundstage


I guess I'll 'limp along' with the 12 ga, and bi-wire my mains for critical listening, which, if nothing else will give an effective larger gage wire. &nbsp;At the whopping five bucks or so that bi-wiring will cost, it's probably worth it.

One of the fun things for me to to imagine that I don't have a huge amount of money (remarkably easy to do) and see how closely I can approach my 'gold standard' (which as I mentioned in another post is being able to close my eyes and not be able to tell that I'm not in the club or concert hall) at the most reasonable cost.</font>
 
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E

EdR

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>But to get back to my original question, in the conclusions of the face off you said:

&quot;.....On a budget, we recommend either the Monster Cable Navajo or Sound King 12AWG along with quality spades or banana terminations of your choice&quot;

My point was that if bare wire into the solderless connectors was about the same electrically as putting directly into the speaker binding posts, why bother? &nbsp;I understand that the small additional resistence of the connector to speaker is not worth mentioning, but it seems to add an additional hassle and step, as well as some expense (about a hundred bucks if you figure to get the connectors for about 3 bucks each on a 7.1 system). &nbsp;So, is there any reason why I shouldn't just bare wire into the binding posts?</font>
 
D

Dan Banquer

Full Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>There is no electrical reason I can think of not to install bare wire in a binding post. I prefer banana plugs for the convience of unpluggung and plugging the speakers. If this is not an issue than don't worry about it.
Let's leave neurosis to what is now called high end.
             d.b.</font>
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
<font color='#000000'>EdR;

As Dan so eloquently puts, the advantage to terminating your cables is convenience. &nbsp;12AWG wire is fine, and you could certainly bi-wire your fronts to reduce DCR if you like. &nbsp;

In my application where I am continually switching out loudspeakers for review, I prefer banana plugs again for convenience.</font>
 
E

EdR

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Gene,

I take a long time deciding on my speakers (I shopped for six years for the current set- making audio shops in five states crazy auditioning) then tend to not change them until they die or we move, so it sounds like bare wire will be just fine for me- should I ever find myself in your enviable position of having all kinds of fun stuff to try on a regular basis, than I can upgrade to banana plugs.

Thanks for helping me clarify this rather confusing issue.</font>
 
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
I have a question for Gene, or anyone else for that fact who wants to respond.

The Speaker cable Faceoff didn't include BlueJean cables. I know they are probably the highest recommended on these forums for quality v. price. However the Sound King looks good for the price too. When I move soon I will need new cables as mine now will be too short... i looked at the Blue Jeans cable site and was very impressed with the prices. i can't get Blue Jean cable in Canada anywhere but they are close to me in Seattle..I might even go see them when I make my yearly trek down there for a Mariners game...

so, how does Blue Jean cable fit into those tests that were done?? And the bananas look identical to the ones i bought in bulk here in town...I don't want to spend a fortune on the best because i don't believe I would hear a difference anyways..just want bang for the buck..

thanks
 

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