Is there a difference between sound systems meant for music and home theatre systems?

[w1res]

Hi guys,

I'm starting to look around for some decent speakers. I don't need a home theater system because I barely ever watch TV. I do, however, listen to music a lot.

The problem is that when I google around for some articles or suggestions, everything seems to be talking about surround sound systems and home theatre systems.

What I think I am looking for is just a set of two bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. Is this right?

Does anyone have a suggestions on a combination of speakers I could get for around $400~500 total that will be good for listening to music and could good volume for a bedroom / small living room?

 

[shadyJ]

hi wires, in my opinion, there shouldn't be a difference in goals between home theater and music playback systems, and that goal is accurate linear reproduction of the source material. A good system does both home theater and music equally well, and a system that has problems with one will have problems with the other.

That being said, a center channel speaker especially, and, to a lesser extant surround speakers are more beneficial to movie playback than music playback. So in going after a music system, you could skip those speakers easily, and just get a pair of bookshelf speakers and a sub like you said.

The question is do you already have the receiver or amplifier, or will that have to be included in the budget?

 

[bikemig]

I use a 2.1 system for music and movies and like it. For $500, the NHT super zero monitors and super 8 sub is a pretty nice set up, http://www.nhthifi.com/bookshelf-speakers-subwoofer-Super-Stereo?sc=12&category=3830.

 

[GranteedEV]

What I think I am looking for is just a set of two bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. Is this right?

To an extent, yes, although

1) Most of the time you cross a sub at 80hz. While bookshelves can hit 80hz, not many of them can do it as effortlessly as a speaker with more radiating surface area etc - a 5" driver for example IS going to have its limitations and a sub won't magically make them dissapear. Depending on how dynamic the music you listen to is, it's possible you could see some benefits from a larger speaker. The bass produced by subs is only a fraction of bass, so you never want to over driver any part of your system.

2) To integrate the bookshelves to the subwoofer properly (phase, time, slope, and reduction of bookshelf energy in the subwoofer's passband) you really do want a crossover of some sort, and the easiest way to implement a crossover is an HT receiver

Does anyone have a suggestions on a combination of speakers I could get for around $400~500 total that will be good for listening to music and could good volume for a bedroom / small living room?

Maybe a pair of

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR2325P

 

[audioman]

speakers for music

For your budget, you can get some good deals used or barely used by audiophiles of varying designs either at audiogon or ebay, especially audiogon where the majority of sellers and buyers are audiophiles either new or used items and plenty of distributors and companies sell there. If you're into planar, you can get magnepans around that price used or spend a hundred dollars more for new with the smallest maggie which is the MMG. You can also get some dynamic speakers for that at emotiva, mirage or fluance for that price range of decent quality. Bic and klipsch makes decent loudspeakers of that price range. If size is an issue, might want to checkout orbaudio!

 

[zieglj01]

Maybe a pair of

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR2325P

And then, start saving up for this
http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/25575/21306

 

[sholling]

You're on the right track with the bookshelf and subwoofer idea but you don't have the budget to pull it off. That's because decent subwoofers start at around $400 and go way up from there. What I suggest instead is a pair of near full range towers like Infinity's Primus P363. The should play deep enough to accommodate rock, jazz, and most classical recordings without the help of a subwoofer and are pretty easy to drive.

Later when you have more budget you can add a subwoofer.

 

[DD66000]

Sholling, although you are right about the cost of a bookshelf/sub setup, being the op asked for a system in a BR or small LR, there might not be enough room for towers.

I would say get a good pair of ported bookshelf speakers able to play down to around 48 hz and forget the sub for now. A pair of JBL L830 ($399~426/pr) on Amazon. At $750/pr list price, will give you much better sound than a lower quality bookshelf/sub combo for $500.
The L830 are large bookshelf speakers, they are not mickey mouse sized bose speakers. You can always add a quality sub later.

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-L830-6-Inch-Bookshelf-Loudspeaker/dp/B000FYZARY/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1

 

[markw]

In theory, no, but systems that sound good with music reproduction will sound good for home theater. The opposite is not always so.

If music is important to you, select your speakers based on music played through the front left/right speakers only, with no sub-woofer or "hall processing". That assures a straight-through evaluation if the raw amplification and the speakers.

Once you found a L/R pair that satisfies, go for the matching center speaker and, if possible, matching rear surrounds if feasible.

 

[GranteedEV]

In theory, no, but systems that sound good with music reproduction will sound good for home theater. The opposite is not always so.

That's not true either. Some people think speakers that have the most bloated bass and most forward treble "sound best for music" - and then when they turn their HT on, dialogue intelligibility "issssssssssssssssssssssssssss" near the floor.

It really depends how you define "sound good"

I will say that the criteria for music tends to emphasize speakers which produce a desired presentation of soundstage (IE "intimate" or "deep" or "sharp"), while the criteria for HT tends to be speakers that can handle dynamic range (can it handle 40db whispers and 100db gunshots?) and I don't really see those criteria as dictating the other - either can be colored sounding, and either could be accurate too. A room optimized for HT will be pretty dead - RT60 around 200 to 300ms while a room optimized for music could be pretty live - RT60 closer to 500 to 600ms.

 

[sholling]

Sholling, although you are right about the cost of a bookshelf/sub setup, being the op asked for a system in a BR or small LR, there might not be enough room for towers.

I actually though of that and racked my brain for a bookshelf solution that I could recommend for use without a sub that's in the OP's price range and the Infinity tower seemed like a better fit to his needs than anything that came to my mind. In this case the Infinity P363 towers and the JBL L830 bookshelves are nearly the same width and depth but Infinities are front ported meaning that they can be placed closer to the wall than the rear ported JBL. That should make the Infinity tower easier to place in a small room while also playing 10hz deeper (38hz vs 48hz). In other words by the time you add stands and 6-18" of room for the JBL's rear bass port to work the Infinity towers are effectively smaller than the JBL bookshelves. Stands also add another $100 or so to the cost of the JBLs. However the bookshelves will probably look less imposing in a small room. Note I have not heard the the L830 so I'm only comparing footprint not sound quality.

 

[markw]

Perhaps, but my experience differs.

That's not true either. Some people think speakers that have the most bloated bass and most forward treble "sound best for music" - and then when they turn their HT on, dialogue intelligibility "issssssssssssssssssssssssssss" near the floor.

Actually, I find it to be just the opposite. Boom/crash/tizz sells movies and smooothness sells music. Movie sound never existed in real life and is created by foley opertaors. Music, at least some, did and that gives a goal to aim for when listening. One to which many ears are attuned.

It really depends how you define "sound good"

I think I just gave a brief description above.

I will say that the criteria for music tends to emphasize speakers which produce a desired presentation of soundstage (IE "intimate" or "deep" or "sharp"), while the criteria for HT tends to be speakers that can handle dynamic range (can it handle 40db whispers and 100db gunshots?) and I don't really see those criteria as dictating the other - either can be colored sounding, and either could be accurate too. A room optimized for HT will be pretty dead - RT60 around 200 to 300ms while a room optimized for music could be pretty live - RT60 closer to 500 to 600ms.

Without getting involved in specifics, I've heard many systems that wowed me on movies but fell woefully short when asked to do music.

Again, I've never heard a system that sounded good for music that didn't sound good on HT.

Granted, not all music systems contain a subwoofer, nor do they need to, but a sub can be made to blend in to any system, particularly if it's adjusted so it just takes over where the mains fall off and, with a sub's low-pass filter and a bit of patience, it can be done with spectacular results. They may want to tone down the woofer for music but that's the curse of a do-all system. Fortunately, my old Denon allows separate sub settings for different inputs. I'm sure newer ones do as well.

Granted, you can get systems that do very well with both but it takes a little patience to find it.

 

[GranteedEV]

Boom/crash/tizz sells movies and smooothness sells music.

To us, that's true.

But IME it's stuff like Paradigm that sells, and the reason it sells is because when people audition music, there's a sense of intimacy and up-closeness from the hot tweeter, and the high Q bass (not necessarily boomy, but definitely bloated) gives the false impression on demo music that bass is deep and powerful. Things like drum hits stand out and distract people away from a natural tonal balance.

Obviously if you've got critical listening skills then you can recognize which is which. But I find when the average people audition (bose notwithstanding... obv only jurassic park sounds are demoed there but that's not what I was refering to) it's the unbalanced soundstage that really impresses them.

For movies, I think people make the following assumption:

"If it has surround speakers, and I like it, it'll be great for movies"

Then they audition music, probably not even stuff they've heard before, and get wowed by the show room floor balance. I don't think it's movie scenes that are selling the hot treble or bloated midbass (though they might sell the punchy distorted subwoofer)

 

[zieglj01]

Without getting involved in specifics, I've heard many systems that wowed me on movies but fell woefully short when asked to do music.

Again, I've never heard a system that sounded good for music that didn't sound good on HT.

I agree with you - the journey has been interesting.

 

[ichigo]

Good for HT in my opinion:

▪ high sensitivity
▪ lots of power handling (big voice coils)
▪ possibly lots of drivers with steep crossovers to keep the drivers from handling a large FR band, so there's less distortion within the playback band for that driver(s).

 

[Wolfee00]

Thank you OP for starting This thread. This was the same question that I want to ask but let me rephrase;

Why do some speakers are better than others in music? For instance some people find Klipsch not good for music, is it rare when someone told me it is good for music, why not?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you OP for starting This thread. This was the same question that I want to ask but let me rephrase;

Why do some speakers are better than others in music? For instance some people find Klipsch not good for music, is it rare when someone told me it is good for music, why not?

As GranteedEV stated, everyone has a different opinion on what sounds great.

DenPureSound has the Klipsch RF82 towers and Infinity Classia towers. Based on the Home Theater Magazine frequency response, the Infinity are much more accurate speakers than the Klipsch speakers.

However, DenPureSound feels that the Klipsch speakers sound much better than the Infinity speakers.

Everyone has a different opinion.

Many people, myself included, think the Infinity P363 sound great. However, some people (I believe Zumbo) think they don't sound good at all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What I think I am looking for is just a set of two bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. Is this right?

Does anyone have a suggestions on a combination of speakers I could get for around $400~500

For $500, I believe your best bet is 2 bookshelf speakers + 1 subwoofer.

I would get 2 Infinity P163 bookshelf speakers for $85 each + 1 Infinity PS212 subwoofer for $300 = total is $470:

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Powered-12IN-Subwoofer-Watt/dp/B000LKDLPK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1317042130&sr=8-3

http://store.audioholics.com/product/3302/66238/infinity-primus-p163-bookshelf-speaker--each-

Here is the Soundstage/NRC review/measurements on the Infinity P162 (previous model) - bottom line is they are very good speakers:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/infinity_primus_p162/

 

[ski2xblack]

Why do some speakers are better than others in music? For instance some people find Klipsch not good for music, is it rare when someone told me it is good for music, why not?

I think that many who denigrate Klipsch have never heard the good ones (Heritage) in a properly set up room. Listening to Reference series at the local best buy, driven by entry level receivers (which the Klipsch will eat alive) yields less than spectacular results.

 

[agarwalro]

Hi there! and welcome to the forum!

What I think I am looking for is just a set of two bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. Is this right?

If you listen to DVD-A or any other format of multi-channel audio, two speakers and a subwoofer (2.1) setup will not be sufficient. Assuming you are only listening to two-channel sources (CD, SACD, etc.), 2.1 will be all you need. "Purists" will say 2.0 is all you need, but we will not go there...

Does anyone have a suggestions on a combination of speakers I could get for around $400~500 total that will be good for listening to music and could good volume for a bedroom / small living room?

Do you already have an receiver or equivalent setup to drive the speakers?

If you have a receiver (most likely), any 2.1 setup in your budget will meet your needs. My personal suggestion will be to forgo the subwoofer and simply get the best bookshelf speakers you can afford. The sub can be added later. My reasoning for this is the fact that, the main speakers need to accurately reproduce a majority of sound and since you are a connoisseur of music you want the most accurate speakers possible for this duty. (No point having a subwoofer if you cannot differentiate a violin from a cello or Eric Clapton's picks from BB Kings' licks )

If you do not have a receiver, (I have never heard these.) the Audioengine A5 is a decent option on paper. Their flexibility for inputs and possibility of a completely wireless solution (subwoofer included) make Audioengine an intriguing setup. There are several other active speakers you an get in your budget. Adam, Behringer and M-Audio to name a few brands that have active speakers.