Is the 'industry' blowing it, yet again?

[djreef]

I'm checking stock and prices on the new Blu Ray, and Blu Spec music discs. All I'm finding is waaaaay overpriced re-issues of the same ol' music they tried reissuing on SACD, and DVD audio (a formula that didn't work so well for them the last time they tried it). It seems like deja vu all over again to me. Who the hell is going to pay $35 for yet another hi rez version of "An Innocent Man" by Billy Joel? I just don't get it. Is the gaming industry really soaking up all the fresh tech marketing talent?

DJ

 

[skizzerflake]

I don't think it's the entire industry, but a small sector of the industry that continues to re-release old music on new, audiophile-approved formats. Since the people that buy these need $12,000 speakers and $8,000 amps to listen to them, it pretty much limits it to older, affluent guys who didn't blow up their ears at rock shows. I always wonder how much better each format can be than the last, especially since they are releasing old recordings that were mostly never intended to be audiophile recordings and have been done before.

 

[jamie2112]

Its a tough economy out there companies are trying everything to make money..............its what our country survives on really.Consumers have to buy or companies go under.

 

[fast1]

maybe they are doing some market testing with the prices? or just to cater to a certain niche market?

 

[I.Canton]

Its a tough economy out there companies are trying everything to make money..............its what our country survives on really.Consumers have to buy or companies go under.

That sounds about right; the economy is the backbone of just about any society.

 

[skizzerflake]

maybe they are doing some market testing with the prices? or just to cater to a certain niche market?

It goes without saying that $35 for a 30-something year old album is a niche, but they seem to be going in the wrong way though. The ongoing crisis in the music industry started when people found out that they could rip and copy CDs for next to nothing rather than paying for them. It got worse when a large part of the market started valuing portability over good sound. My impression is that the audiophile market has a pretty small subset of the musical world that is well recorded enough to merit their attention and that subset is available enough on SACD, DVD Audio and vinyl to make you wonder whether yet another overpriced version will sell enough to keep it going. For sure it ain't but a small part of the future of the business.

 

[djreef]

It goes without saying that $35 for a 30-something year old album is a niche, but they seem to be going in the wrong way though. The ongoing crisis in the music industry started when people found out that they could rip and copy CDs for next to nothing rather than paying for them. It got worse when a large part of the market started valuing portability over good sound. My impression is that the audiophile market has a pretty small subset of the musical world that is well recorded enough to merit their attention and that subset is available enough on SACD, DVD Audio and vinyl to make you wonder whether yet another overpriced version will sell enough to keep it going. For sure it ain't but a small part of the future of the business.

Exactly. If you want a new medium to take off you have to provide new releases, from artists that are currently relevant, and you have to do this at a price point that most folks are willing to pay. Re-recycling old material for the umpteenth time to a small subset during an economic downturn isn't going to cut it. I mean, really - how much better is the Blu-Ray version to the SACD version that I already own. I would venture to bet, not much. Certainly not $35 worth. I understand the concept of early adoption, but seriously, there's also a marketing concept called lost leader that the biz has seemingly forgotten. Sometimes in order to get folks to try something you need to give them a little push, esp. during bad times. It just looks like the industry is really boning this one. Again.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

No. It prices are based on volume, medium costs, royalties, supply and demand.

The forecast sales for these items are low.

Volume = low number(higher cost)

Blu-ray format is highly priced with royalties and manufacturing being far more than CDs

medium costs(high)

Royalties( Artists still need payment.

Supply is low and the demand is high enough currently for these disks to sell without a surplus.

Prices are a factor of economics. Simply Supply vs Demand.

 

[3db]

Its a no brainer... for me, I won't buy any bluray dvd issue for music. I just want to hear the music and for me the vinyl format and the cd format are good enough.

 

[djreef]

No. It prices are based on volume, medium costs, royalties, supply and demand.

The forecast sales for these items are low.

Volume = low number(higher cost)

Blu-ray format is highly priced with royalties and manufacturing being far more than CDs

medium costs(high)

Royalties( Artists still need payment.

Supply is low and the demand is high enough currently for these disks to sell without a surplus.

Prices are a factor of economics. Simply Supply vs Demand.

Yea, I understand all of that. Are they really moving product, though? I mean, is this just going to croak like the other formats because of ill promotion and marketing misunderstanding? How many new releases are planned by new artists? I'm not seeing many. I would hate to commit to a new medium to just see it wither away, due to lack of interest. I think this has the potential to really change things, but I'm seeing the same mistakes being repeated. Sometimes economics is more than just supply and demand.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

Sometimes economics is more than just supply and demand.

Honestly I have no demand for better than cd quality for most music. I see this as a waste of a disc in most cases. Audio isn't so much better on blu-ray that it's worth the cost IME. Sound quality is more a factor of the studio quality than the format from what I've heard.

 

[gene]

I'm checking stock and prices on the new Blu Ray, and Blu Spec music discs. All I'm finding is waaaaay overpriced re-issues of the same ol' music they tried reissuing on SACD, and DVD audio (a formula that didn't work so well for them the last time they tried it). It seems like deja vu all over again to me. Who the hell is going to pay $35 for yet another hi rez version of "An Innocent Man" by Billy Joel? I just don't get it. Is the gaming industry really soaking up all the fresh tech marketing talent?

I can't tell you how many times I got sucked into buying a "re-master" of classic album from the 80s or 90s that sounded worse than the original CD release b/c of over-EQing or hyper compression. Even the stuff being re-released as SACD 5.1 such as most of the Genesis catalog sounds horrific to put it kindly.

 

[djreef]

I can't tell you how many times I got sucked into buying a "re-master" of classic album from the 80s or 90s that sounded worse than the original CD release b/c of over-EQing or hyper compression. Even the stuff being re-released as SACD 5.1 such as most of the Genesis catalog sounds horrific to put it kindly.

I'm with you on that. The KISS remasters also sound aweful, as do many others that I've heard. Way too bright, way too grainy. I don't understand why these tin ears in charge of the remastering protocols don't have 25 yo women in the studio during this process as a check against their diminished hearing. Many of the guys in charge of this stuff are damn near stone deaf in one or both ears. At the very least if they're going to be responsible for overseeing these projects they need to have their hearing tested at least once a year, if not twice, given the importance of the work that they do. This is yet another example of the industry dropping the ball IMHO, but perhaps the topic of another thread. That is, if it hasn't already been beaten to death somewhere else in these pages.

DJ

 

[djreef]

Honestly I have no demand for better than cd quality for most music. I see this as a waste of a disc in most cases. Audio isn't so much better on blu-ray that it's worth the cost IME. Sound quality is more a factor of the studio quality than the format from what I've heard.

I agree. In a great many instances I can't hear a difference btwn the high-rez and 16bit versions of older recordings. Where I do hear differences is with newer recordings, esp ones that use the high-rez process bottom up. Unfortunately, not many of these have been produced that aren't in either the classical, or jazz genres. This has been a big dissapointment to me . Don't get me wrong I love both Classical and Jazz, and own numerous high-rez titles, but their overall sales are down dramatically in recent years, even more so than other formats. Not exactly a great way to foster new interest in hi-rez recordings with the general buying public. As you stated before, you almost guarantee that this product will become a niche player and become susceptible to subsequent fading. My problem is, that I don't understand why this has to be. The answers seem to be fairly clear to me. Release new high-rez recordings using popular new talent on high-rez media. Think bigger, not smaller.

DJ

 

[lsiberian]

I agree. In a great many instances I can't hear a difference btwn the high-rez and 16bit versions of older recordings. Where I do hear differences is with newer recordings, esp ones that use the high-rez process bottom up. Unfortunately, not many of these have been produced that aren't in either the classical, or jazz genres. This has been a big dissapointment to me . Don't get me wrong I love both Classical and Jazz, and own numerous high-rez titles, but their overall sales are down dramatically in recent years, even more so than other formats. Not exactly a great way to foster new interest in hi-rez recordings with the general buying public. As you stated before, you almost guarantee that this product will become a niche player and become susceptible to subsequent fading. My problem is, that I don't understand why this has to be. The answers seem to be fairly clear to me. Release new high-rez recordings using popular new talent on high-rez media. Think bigger, not smaller.

DJ

I would love to get a great rock concert on Blu-ray hi-rez. But like DVD I think concerts are the way to get the hifi audio. There is no shortage of concert DVDs IME. I bet there will be no shortage of Blu-rays someday.

 

[djreef]

I would love to get a great rock concert on Blu-ray hi-rez. But like DVD I think concerts are the way to get the hifi audio. There is no shortage of concert DVDs IME. I bet there will be no shortage of Blu-rays someday.

No doubt. I just wish we could get a 2 channel solution to hi-rez at a decent price point that would be inclusive to everyone. Of course, I'm biased because I have a dedicated 2 channel rig, but still......

DJ

 

[Hawkeye]

IMO Blu-ray will not be a major player in the world of audio unless and until a majority of players sold are compatible with various formats, they incorporate other forms of multimedia such as videos, concerts, interviews, bonus material ie: previously unreleased, etc. All at a price that will prompt consumers to embrace it. Personally I'm not holding my breath.

 

[skizzerflake]

IMO Blu-ray will not be a major player in the world of audio unless and until a majority of players sold are compatible with various formats, they incorporate other forms of multimedia such as videos, concerts, interviews, bonus material ie: previously unreleased, etc. All at a price that will prompt consumers to embrace it. Personally I'm not holding my breath.

I can see it working if it becomes a standard rather than a separate world like SACD, but unfortunately it arrives at a time where audiophiles are an isolated, cranky bunch and most of the music market is more concerned with convenience and portability and doesn't spend much or any time sitting quietly in the "sweet spot" of an expensive and massive audio system. As such it will just be a replacement for other hi-res digital formats like DVD-A or SACD. I also doubt that it will replace vinyl since grooved disks have such a quasi-religious following. Vinyl-philes seem to favor that anachonistic technology BECAUSE it's anachronistic.

 

[3db]

No doubt. I just wish we could get a 2 channel solution to hi-rez at a decent price point that would be inclusive to everyone. Of course, I'm biased because I have a dedicated 2 channel rig, but still......

DJ

A good turntable with well enginneered recordings or a good recorded CD/cdplayer is all you need for high rez 2 channel audio.

 

[djreef]

A good turntable with well enginneered recordings or a good recorded CD/cdplayer is all you need for high rez 2 channel audio.

3db - You make it sound as though we've gone as far as we can with this. I dunno, I'd like to think that this hobby has a little more gas left in the tank, and the industry has a little more work to do in getting us closer to the event.


DJ