Is SVS PB2000 an upgrade to these DIY subs?

[Sylar]

I currently have a pair of these DIY subs driven by XLS1500.
I'm Considering replacing them with one of PSB PB2000.

Should I go with this upgrade? (Listening position is usually single position)

 

[rojo]

You know, I haven't had a chance to research my suspicions yet, but I'm thinking your best upgrade might be to replace the drivers in your existing boxes. Typically car subwoofers have a higher fs for higher sensitivity and tuning more appropriate for the gain of the car's smaller cabin, anyway. Building them into a home theater might have always been a misapplication doomed to fail.

I'm thinking the CSS SDX-12 and a passive radiator would fill those boxes nicely, or maybe the Dayton 12" HO and a passive radiator. I'll have to play with some models to see, unless someone more experienced beats me to it.

You've already got the boxes and hardware, and a nice amp. Besides, SVS price/performance ratio isn't what it used to be. Even if you decide to start over with a new sub, you can do better shopping around -- Outlaw Audio, or Hsu Research, for example.

What do you hope to gain by replacing your diy project subs, anyway?

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

 

[lsiberian]

It depends on what you are looking for? It won't perform better than your current sub, but it is a much simpler and prettier option.

 

[TLS Guy]

I currently have a pair of these DIY subs driven by XLS1500.
I'm Considering replacing them with one of PSB PB2000.

Should I go with this upgrade? (Listening position is usually single position)

Most subs will be an upgrade on that sub. Unfortunately you have had a learning experience.

That sub is a nasty high Qtc sub with a very peaked boomy response.

Yes, the SVS will be an upgrade, but even better would be to get back on the horse and build a killer sub.

 

[rojo]

TLS, check my work please.

The CSS SDX12 (cheaper by the pair) + the APR12 passive radiator fully weighted with 900g of ballast appears to model like this @100W in OP's 3ft³ boxes:

Group delay is below 12ms till about 20Hz (below which is rises exponentially), and the driver's maximum excursion is never reached until over 900W at 20Hz, which would be about 106dB.

 

[Sylar]

I am exploring to upgrade because I find it lacking in output. For music for instance I need to turn my dial to at least 70-75% to get a decent sub effect. It barely gives a thumping effect. However, the sub is tight and not boomy for sure. With movies the effects are decent, but I still find it lacking. It rumbles and thumps, but far from being decent enough.

I'm not so sure about DIY now.

 

[rojo]

Have you tried bumping up the LFE output volume on your AVR? I know my Marantz + Audyssey room correction sets the subwoofer out at a very conservative level, and I usually have to bump it up around 7.5 - 9dB after doing sweeps.

I think you'll be doing yourself a disservice by downgrading from two dual-opposed subs to a single ported. For one thing, a single sub can't compensate for nulls at the primary listening position like two can.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS, check my work please.

The CSS SDX12 (cheaper by the pair) + the APR12 passive radiator fully weighted with 900g of ballast appears to model like this @100W in OP's 3ft³ boxes:

Group delay is below 12ms till about 20Hz (below which is rises exponentially), and the driver's maximum excursion is never reached until over 900W at 20Hz, which would be about 106dB.

I'm not sure you have the maximum performance from that driver. The 3db point is 35 Hz, and since it is an ABR Eq is not on the table.

It looks to be a respectable sub, but not earth shattering.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

@Sylar, how large (total volume) is your listening space?
If it's anywhere near my - neither of these subs would do.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

this one for only extra shipping price would be massive upgrade over svs pb2000:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

 

[Sylar]

Have you tried bumping up the LFE output volume on your AVR? I know my Marantz + Audyssey room correction sets the subwoofer out at a very conservative level, and I usually have to bump it up around 7.5 - 9dB after doing sweeps.

I have bumped it up by 10dB.

@Sylar, how large (total volume) is your listening space?

Its not large. Its a little less than 2000 cubic ft.
Could it be my room? I am trying to measure the room response currently (See my other thread).

this one for only extra shipping price would be massive upgrade over svs pb2000:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html

I live in India, options are pretty limited. That one from HSU costs me big to get it here. $1500.
SVS sells in India so I get it with warranty. No Rythmik, or outlaw or HSU. SVS PB 2000 costs me around $1100. I'm not sure VTF3 is worth $400 extra, with the risk of having to ship back for warranty.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am exploring to upgrade because I find it lacking in output. For music for instance I need to turn my dial to at least 70-75% to get a decent sub effect. It barely gives a thumping effect. However, the sub is tight and not boomy for sure. With movies the effects are decent, but I still find it lacking. It rumbles and thumps, but far from being decent enough.

I'm not so sure about DIY now.

Have you applied Eq to the sub? Without Eq it is not really a sub. That has sub has a typical car driver high Q thump. The sub will not really be a domestic sub without heavy Eq and response smoothing.

I must have missed your build thread, I would have tried to talk you out of that build.

Sub design is not rocket science. This is not a DIY problem, but a driver selection and overall design issue.

You have drivers that loose the one advantage of sealed and that is low Q. The Qtc of that sub is over 0.6 and you can best that and not contend with all the problems that go with putting a driver in a closed box.

If you want to do another build, then set your specification, budget and expectations and we can help you.

I'm not surprised that you have to drive it hard. That is a problem with sealed subs in general, as a loudspeaker is a terrible acoustic interface to the environment and the larger the space the worse it is.

The trick is picking the best acoustic transformer and keeping the reproduction essentially non resonant.

With judicious juggling you can designed standard ported boxes to give a very adequate performance, if you don't play the numbers game and shoot for the absolutely lowest F3.

It all comes down to a judicious balance of the possibilities.

 

[rojo]

I have bumped it up by 10dB.


Its not large. Its a little less than 2000 cubic ft.
Could it be my room? I am trying to measure the room response currently (See my other thread).


I live in India, options are pretty limited. That one from HSU costs me big to get it here. $1500.
SVS sells in India so I get it with warranty. No Rythmik, or outlaw or HSU. SVS PB 2000 costs me around $1100. I'm not sure VTF3 is worth $400 extra, with the risk of having to ship back for warranty.

I'm skeptical that it's the room. So what happened between the end of the build thread where you said,

I played some HT material, and I was scared the drivers were goners cos they had so much of excursion in some scenes. Gun shot scenes were the best!

... and now? Is it possible a connection has come loose, either outside the cabinets or within? Do you have the drivers wired in series within the cabinets and stereo at the amp? Or series within the cabinets and parallel bridged at the amp? Or some other wiring config?

 

[Sylar]

... and now? Is it possible a connection has come loose, either outside the cabinets or within? Do you have the drivers wired in series within the cabinets and stereo at the amp? Or series within the cabinets and parallel bridged at the amp? Or some other wiring config?

The sub is fine. There are no issues with it. The sub has not gone from performing to non performing.
I don't remember how I wired it. Need to open it up. Its just that it has low spl. Sinc it was my first sub i managed for a while with it.

 

[Sylar]

Have you applied Eq to the sub? Without Eq it is not really a sub.

Nope . No eq. Adding a MiniDSP should help here right?

If you want to do another build, then set your specification, budget and expectations and we can help you.

Well...will think about this.
Is the current enclosure any good or do I need to build another from scratch?

 

[TLS Guy]

Nope . No eq. Adding a MiniDSP should help here right?


Well...will think about this.
Is the current enclosure any good or do I need to build another from scratch?

Yes, MiniDSP will help a lot. Without Eq, that unit is not a sub, but a bass module.

If you want another build I would start from scratch.

I would try Eq first.

 

[rojo]

I agree that you should try EQ first. You need to flatten your response and correct it at your primary listening position.

If ultimately you decide your current subs just aren't going to work, then I'm still liking the CSS driver + PR combo in your existing boxes. I guess it depends on how much other suggested drivers + wood + glue + terminals + effort cost you, versus the cost of these two drivers and radiators.

SDX12 + Passive radiator loaded with 540g of ballast models like this with an 80Hz LP filter at 525 watts (the max rated output at 4 ohms x 2 of your Crown amp):

Its F3 is around 16Hz and its group delay maintains a freq * ms product of 400 or less throughout the entire audible range. (Not sure whether that's a relevant goal to try to reach, but this cat seems to think it is.) And the driver and radiator ought to be drop-in replacements with no modifications to the boxes needed at all.

But wait and see what TLS Guy says. He's been doing this a lot longer than I.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yes, MiniDSP will help a lot. Without Eq, that unit is not a sub, but a bass module.

If you want another build I would start from scratch.

I would try Eq first.

besides MiniDSP - get a Umic as well - working blind (by eye) is not good way to go.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree that you should try EQ first. You need to flatten your response and correct it at your primary listening position.

If ultimately you decide your current subs just aren't going to work, then I'm still liking the CSS driver + PR combo in your existing boxes. I guess it depends on how much other suggested drivers + wood + glue + terminals + effort cost you, versus the cost of these two drivers and radiators.

SDX12 + Passive radiator loaded with 540g of ballast models like this with an 80Hz LP filter at 525 watts (the max rated output at 4 ohms x 2 of your Crown amp):

Its F3 is around 16Hz and its group delay maintains a freq * ms product of 400 or less throughout the entire audible range. (Not sure whether that's a relevant goal to try to reach, but this cat seems to think it is.) And the driver and radiator ought to be drop-in replacements with no modifications to the boxes needed at all.

But wait and see what TLS Guy says. He's been doing this a lot longer than I.

Remind me to look at this next week. I'm getting ready to travel to St Louis tomorrow, for a high school robotics competition. Will be back Monday.

 

[Sylar]

Allright, I'm going with Eq first since I already have a MiniDsp and a UMM6.

I'm Attempting to do some measurements using REW along with ASIO drivers, and facing some issues (I'm not able to hear the damn sweep signal) - trying to figure out whats wrong.
Will post the measurements once I am able to successfully measure.