Is RBH the best bang for the buck?

ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I'm back on the inwall war path. Gonna replace my rockets with inwalls and probably put IB system in the ceiling.

Anyway, there is so much conflicting info out there on what is good and what is bad.

I have been looking closely at the RBH SI-6100 or SI-6000. Considering what these go for...do you think they are the best bang for the buck?

I know there are a few others out there (martin logan, niles, sonance...) I am also considering but I just keep coming back to these. What say ye audioholics.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
I'm back on the inwall war path. Gonna replace my rockets with inwalls and probably put IB system in the ceiling.

Anyway, there is so much conflicting info out there on what is good and what is bad.

I have been looking closely at the RBH SI-6100 or SI-6000. Considering what these go for...do you think they are the best bang for the buck?

I know there are a few others out there (martin logan, niles, sonance...) I am also considering but I just keep coming back to these. What say ye audioholics.
The better quality in-walls will have their own cabinet; not relying on the wall volume to act as the cabinet. Also, you will be greatly rewarded if you build a special mounting frame that de-couples the in-wall frames/cabinets from the drywall. Normally, a substantial amount of energy is transferred to the drywall, causing coloration(s). But you can prevent this if using the in-wall speakers that have their own enclosed cabinets.

You can also 'make' your own in-walls by purchasing a good quality 2 way bookshelf speaker and making an in-wall cabinet, and using the drivers and xover network from the bookshelf speaker. It is an alternative. And if using say Infinity Primus (just as example) line for the driver/xover set, then you are getting very high quality drivers and pretty good xovers to start with.

-Chris
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I thought the RBH series that I am referring to come built into their own enclosure? Wouldn't that mean the fall into the category of better quality inwall?

I know that you are a very active DIYer so building your own inwalls probably seem pretty simple, however, I find the concept very intimidating.

Despite that fact, I also find it very intriguing. Could I use my rockets and actually use them as inwalls? Has there been anybody else who has built their own inwalls that would be willing to walk somebody like me through it?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Best "bang-for-the-buck" is a little hard to nail down in a case like this. I say that because, for example, the in-wall speakers from tSc are very inexpensive and actually pretty good. That makes them very high "bang-for-buck", but they probably don't have quite the level of sound quality that you are expecting if you're thinking more along the lines of RBH SI-6100 ;)

I do not know the size of your room, but the SI-6000 and especially the SI-6100 are capable of some serious output.

My advice, though, would be that if you are willing to drop that kind of cash and you require speakers capable of that much output, it would be well worth your while - quality wise - to step up to the SI-6000/R for the considerably improved Status Acoustics drivers. The Status mid-range drivers, in particular (of which there are 4 in either the 6000/R or 6100/R) are a seriously worth-while upgrade over the standard RBH aluminum drivers, IMO.

Now, whether the RBH Signature Reference in-walls are the best value at that kind of price point? That's a tough, tough call. But for my own tastes, it'd come down to either the RBH Signature Reference or Paradigm's Signature Reference in-walls. That Beryllium tweeter in the Paradigm SIG-LCR 5 does a heck of a good job as an in-wall speaker due to its stunningly good dispersion and to my ear, it outdoes the RBH Signature Reference tweeter here. The SIG-ADP is also the best in-wall surround speaker I've ever heard, so if you're going in-walls all around, that might be worth something to you.

But the price is most certainly high and the back boxes are a separate purchase with the Paradigms, so it could end up being too expensive- I'm not sure.

In-walls are a tough subject. My conclusion has been that you should opt for the absolute best drivers that you can afford because when mounted in the wall, ANY flaws are accentuated. If you're absolute, primary goal is pristine sound quality, with in-walls, you really cannot skimp at all because you have no "fiddle" room in terms of placement and it really all comes down to the drivers and cross-over having to compensate for a less than ideal placement situation.

That said, I would sooner opt for in-walls with the benefits of a complete and enclosed back-box than on-walls, which are far more heavily compromised.
 
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ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I guess I am willing to pay up to that amount the RBH speakers would cost me, so I guess instead of "bang for the buck" I should have classified my question as "are there any better speakers for the price?".

I have a pretty decent size room. I have 8.5' ceilings in a room that is 16.5' wide and is 33' long. Halfway down one side of the room there is an opening to another area that is 10' wide and 12' long. I figured with a room this size I would need some hefty speakers that can move some air which is why I looked at the RBH.

I'll take a look at the paradigm but I just keep coming back to the RBHs. I may stick to the 6000/R since I think I found them for less than I can get the vanilla 6100s.

Since I am only considering these speakers for my front stage I will be leaving the others along. Now I have to think of what will be a good center channel solution. I don't have an acoustically transparent screen so this could get tricky.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Definitely check out the Paradigm SIG-LCR 5. The tweeter response of that speaker is something special and capable of the kind of output you will need in your room.

The Signature Reference RBH are likewise, definitely the way to go over the "standard" reference RBH line. The upgraded Status drivers are capable of much lower distortion at high output levels, which is very much going to be worth your while in your room.

Personally, I come back to the Paradigm Signature Reference line though (if you can afford them). Without an acoustically transparent screen, your center speaker is going to be either very low or very high. You need, basically, a huge dispersion window for the center speaker and the Paradigm Signature Reference Beryllium tweeter can deliver that. Upwards of about 60 degrees off axis, it is still performing within a few dB of on-axis response. So purely performance-wise, I think it might be the way to go in your case.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
I put some Axiom M2 inwalls in my dining room, looking for some budget inwalls, and they sound great and went in easy. I spent /much/ more on Sonance Architectural series speakers in other rooms, and while they do have nicer grills and sit flush, the Axioms I'd rate better in every other category.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
If the woman's butt whom is featured in that ad is the Installer, than I'd recommend getting those speakers over the RBH's or any other brand mentioned in this thread :rolleyes:
I just had to X out of that before my g/f asked me what I was doing looking at other women again.

I wonder what it sounds like when she farts. :D
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I put some Axiom M2 inwalls in my dining room, looking for some budget inwalls, and they sound great and went in easy. I spent /much/ more on Sonance Architectural series speakers in other rooms, and while they do have nicer grills and sit flush, the Axioms I'd rate better in every other category.
I have a fairly large space to fill...do you think the M22s could do it?
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
For your sized room, I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending the Axiom M22.

Axiom's got full sized in-cabinet versions of their tower speakers now though and the M60 or M80 should be able to handle your room size nicely :)

I'm not sure what you build plans are, but the Axiom in-cabinet speakers definitely aren't meant to go in a standard wall. They're meant for a build-out to accomodate their 15-17 inch depth.
 
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fredk

Audioholic General
I put some Axiom M2 inwalls in my dining room, looking for some budget inwalls, and they sound great and went in easy. I spent /much/ more on Sonance Architectural series speakers in other rooms, and while they do have nicer grills and sit flush, the Axioms I'd rate better in every other category.
Being a big fan I had to post this over on the Axiom forums. :D The folks at Axiom put say their inwalls sound the same as their full sized counterparts, but its nice to hear comparisons from people who have them.
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
How big is your room? This is a question I would ask the folks at Axiom.
I have a pretty decent size room. I have 8.5' ceilings in a room that is 16.5' wide and is 33' long. Halfway down one side of the room there is an opening (not a doorway...it is completly open to this area, as in the entire 4th wall between the two rooms is open) to another area that is 10' wide and 12' long.

Roughly 5650 cubic feet.
 
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fredk

Audioholic General
Thats big. Are you looking to fill the whole room, or is one area dedicated to listening. If its the whole room, you need towers for better power handling.

OK, I should be sleeping, not posting. You are trying to get rid of your towers. Back to RBH...
 
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MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
I have a fairly large space to fill...do you think the M22s could do it?
I can't confidently answer that.

How big of a room? It depends on how loud you listen.

They have a 30-day trial, and while they are bookshelves they are all self contained, so you could just hook them up like regular speakers outside of the wall and get an idea what they sound like and their output.
 
ozmedia

ozmedia

Audioholic
Enclosures

I thought the RBH series that I am referring to come built into their own enclosure? Wouldn't that mean the fall into the category of better quality inwall?

I know that you are a very active DIYer so building your own inwalls probably seem pretty simple, however, I find the concept very intimidating.

Despite that fact, I also find it very intriguing. Could I use my rockets and actually use them as inwalls? Has there been anybody else who has built their own inwalls that would be willing to walk somebody like me through it?
Most RBH in-walls don't come with a custom enclosure, they build a generic one size fits all. Even then, MOST (99.999%) of installers don't other with them anyway and some have even been told they sound better without a backbox, RBH does design in-walls to utilize the full stud space anyway.

Signatures, do have a custom tuned back box. It incorporates a thin metal rim that fits the baffle perfectly. Of course you need to rip great holes in your drywall to install them unless in a new home and done during the prewire stage. The baffle and grill that show through the wall are MUCH smaller than the back box which is nearly 5' tall (as you can see in the picture) http://www.rbhsound.com/si6100.shtml

As for the reference drivers, YES, the ScanSpeak tweeters and Status Acoustic (also an RBH product) woofers are superior to the standard Signature drivers, however, unless in a nearly perfect room and listen under very critical conditions, you probably won't really notice a great difference. Signature drivers are proprietary, RBH designed and are AMAZING. They work around ring at rolloff to offer a perfect product, this sort of R&D is only found in far more expensive products, if at all.
I was just demoing a pair of the new MC-6CT's for a theatre designer and he was floored at the range, power handling and detail of aluminum. He admitted looking at a lot of product, and said this was the best sounding cone he'd ever heard. The MC series, as just described, are not even at the same level as the Signatures, however I would challenge you to find a better sounding driver anywhere, regardless of the price point.


as for: "you need towers for better power handling."
If that was with respect to the 6000's or 6100's, not true at all. I've seen them installed in massive home theatre rooms, pumping out SERIOUS SPL without any effort. 4 in floor subs, 6100 L/C/R with 760 rears and sides, absolutely POUNDING effortlessly. you will never bottom them out.


Yeah, it sounds a bit overblown but it's the truth, if you haven't heard a pair, it's hard to imagine (I know I doubted it at first too, especially being a former Paradigm rep) but once your ears hear RBH and their aluminum cones, you'll never go back.

I have seen 6100's and 6000's used in $200,000+ home theaters in multi-million dollar mansions and they sound flawless. If you like to really turn it up and shake the room, no problem, even their tiny satellite monitors literally crank and pound effortlessly.

Having worked with many competitive product lines, I can tell you straight up, and anyone who owns or knows RBH will tell you also, they are by far the best value for money on the market today. I've tried many many times to find a better sounding in-wall or in-ceiling product, to no avail.

They were pioneers in the industry, were builders and designers for JBL, Fosgate, Macintosh and others for years. Then 17 years ago they started branding and building their own product, it reduces R&D costs, reduces production costs and allows them to offer a superior product at an affordable price.

Phew, sales pitch over, and I don't even sell them myself a living, I am just a rep for low voltage and home theatre installers. Knowing them now, I would gladly buy anything RBH came out with, unseen and unheard.
 
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