Is it wise to use a all-in-one receiver instead of a dedicated processor?

[avab]

I guess this is directed for more of the purists out there.

Looking at the Audiophiles recommended home system, they have combined a few Denon receivers with Amps...my question is for those of you to have true separates -

is there any problems with getting a receiver (such as a Denon or a Yamaha) and using that with an amp as opposed to buying all the components separately??

A few people have recommended to me the new Yamaha receiver 2600 coupled with a 7-channel Emotiva amp...Is that overkill?

Thanks!

avab

 

[audioferret]

definitely overkill

I can't see why it is considered this way. The Yamaha, Denon, and Pioneers of the world have an advantage because all-in-one receivers are in the lower price ranges while seaparates are not.

Look at outlawaudio.com or av123.com at the separates offers they have. Both companies are offering competitive Pre/pro and receiver combos for under $1000. Audioholics has their preferences, just like anyone else. Look at Consumer Reports and the way they rate cars. Ask yourself, "Do I place as much weight on the benchmark requirements CR does?" A Jeep liberty does not fare well on their tests because towing capacity and off-road capability are not as important to them as confort and safety features.

In the recommended systems, they are not the best options. They are the ones that fit the needs perceived by the editors. That is all.

To more directly answer your question: Do you really want to pay for the extra amplifiers in a all-in-one system and then NOT USE THEM? Save. Put the money into a nice set of separates and never look back.

-AF

 

[Mr. Lamb Fries]

I would get the receiver you want...with the options you want...and if thats not enough power...Upgrade later. No need to think you'll need an external amp right off the bat. Some of the receivers you mentioned have plenty of power for 99% of your listening.

Just my .02$

 

[gene]

is there any problems with getting a receiver (such as a Denon or a Yamaha) and using that with an amp as opposed to buying all the components separately??

A few people have recommended to me the new Yamaha receiver 2600 coupled with a 7-channel Emotiva amp...Is that overkill?

YES! Despite the misconception that people like to spew out on forums, quality receivers from Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer Elite often outperform Separate dedicated processors in terms of processing power, bass management options, video connectivity, and often preamplifier performance. WE have for example found the Yamaha RX-V2600 and Denon AVR-5805 to have top notch preamplifier performance. To date I haven't measured a finer product, regardless of price than the AVR-5805. Its amp section is very respectable and its preamp section is simply stellar.

This explains why the 5805 is in my primary showcase system while the 2600 is used as a dedicated pre/pro in my family room system. I also use the Emotiva amp hooked to the 2600. Awesome combo that I would run away with any day of the week over most more costly separates.

Don't just assume that a dedicated pre pro has any advantages, especially in terms of performance over a well engineered receiver.

The truth of the matter is far more R&D goes into these receivers than most of the smaller audio companies could ever afford. There are quicker turn around times on receivers and they usually get the latest and greatest technology first. You also benefit from the cost savings of mass production of receivers and common circuit and parts used in a multi platform design. Unless you are spending uber bucks on a dedicated pre/pro, I would almost always opt for a mid level receiver as the pre/pro such as a Yammie 2600, Denon 2807, etc.

Consider the amp section in these receivers as a freebie to power multi zone audio or your rear effects channels. If these companies were to simply discard the amp sections and spit out a dedicated processor, it would either cost them the same or more money since they wouldn't sell as many and would have to charge more for the product!

Of course there are exceptions. If you desire a uniform look in your rack, and/or the simplicity of operation many dedicated pre/pros offer, than you may want to go the separates route. Just realize, this often doesn't guarantee better performance but almost always guarantees you to spend more money

 

[avab]

thank you all

Gene and everyone,

Thank you for your input! I definitely needed that kind of resource from knowledgeable audioholics before I put down the almighty dollars..

Thank you also for the outlawaudio and av123.com web site. I took a glance at them - good stuff.

Gene -
I am sure you have reviewed plenty of superb audio, my question is Audioholics has given so much praise for the Yamaha and Denon units. Have you reviewed any Rotel units? I recently heard a Rotel pre/pro (1068) and the matching 5-ch amp here in Westminster, CA - excellent excellent sound. I am planning on pairing them with a set of Energy speakers.

My question is - what do I have to lose by going with the Rotel? Do you feel the extra options on the Yamaha will benefit me in the long run? Do you think that a separate amp will provided cleaner power than that coming out of the Yamaha?

Thanks again! You guys are fantastic!

avab

 

[mtrycrafts]

Gene and everyone,

Thank you for your input! I definitely needed that kind of resource from knowledgeable audioholics before I put down the almighty dollars..

Thank you also for the outlawaudio and av123.com web site. I took a glance at them - good stuff.

Gene -
I am sure you have reviewed plenty of superb audio, my question is Audioholics has given so much praise for the Yamaha and Denon units. Have you reviewed any Rotel units? I recently heard a Rotel pre/pro (1068) and the matching 5-ch amp here in Westminster, CA - excellent excellent sound. I am planning on pairing them with a set of Energy speakers.

My question is - what do I have to lose by going with the Rotel? Do you feel the extra options on the Yamaha will benefit me in the long run? Do you think that a separate amp will provided cleaner power than that coming out of the Yamaha?

Thanks again! You guys are fantastic!

avab

Have you compared the costs of the several options mentioned here?
I am sure you would be hard pressed to differentiate the sound between them under levels matched, bias controlled conditions

 

[Dan Driscoll]

I would get the receiver you want...with the options you want...and if thats not enough power...Upgrade later. No need to think you'll need an external amp right off the bat. Some of the receivers you mentioned have plenty of power for 99% of your listening.

Just my .02$

I believe that depends on what speakers he's driving. I can think of quite a few speakers that most receivers would have trouble driving, particularly if they are low impedance. Most receiver amp sections struggle when faced with a 4 ohm speaker. Other speakers simply require more power than many receivers can deliver, particularly if you enjoy listening at or near reference level.

 

[Mr. Lamb Fries]

What speakers he's driving would fall under "options he wants"...That would be the ability to drive speakers he is/has chosen, especially 4 ohm speakers.

Being able to achieve your listening at referance levels would fall under "if thats not enough power...upgrade later"...Just as it says, Upgrade later! that could mean later that day...but dont just think your going to need that power without seeing what your receiver has to offer.

To answer his question's...
1.Using a receiver as a Pre/Pro is a great Idea. I almost got the yam 2500 for that reason. It is a great Processor and at that price, it can offer so much more.
2.Is that overkill? For me its never overkill, but you could decide that the receiver your getting has enough power, and you wouldn't need a dedicated 7 channel amp. That would save a bundle. If you need more power and money is not much of a concern...get the power amp then. That's when upgradeitis has taken hold!

 

[zumbo]

I find it hard to spend tons of money on a receiver/pre-pro. The options/features change so fast. That is why I believe in buying a receiver with the options/features you need at the moment, and buying a seperate amp. The amp will never get out-of-date.

One other thing to look at. When I purchased my receiver, I saved a great deal of money going with one that had less power than the next model up. But, it had all the same features/options. Yamaha 1400/2400. Then, I added an amp. Adcom 7605.

Total price paid (new, to my door): $1390.67
Yamaha RX-V1400: $581.50
Adcom 7605: $809.17

That got me a true 175w X 5 with receiver power on tap for whatever I may need.

 

[avab]

I'm driving Energys series speakers

Hiya blokes,

Thank ya for the enlightning argument. I'm all in agreement with the "extra power" argument that was posted.

Obviously the upgrade bug will eventually bite me in the arse and I'll be forced to sneak in another expensive receiver or pre/pro unit into the house (passed the wife of course).

I plan on a set of Energy C-7s, C-3 bookshelfs, and C-C1 center channel set. My subwoofer will be a low range SVS. So I'm not going with a 7.1 set because I feel that 5.1 right now is more than enough for my music and movie viewing needs.

That being said - some separates are obviously better at what they do: Anthem, Aragon, etc. I don't have that kind of money.

But price comparison wise:
Yamaha VX-2600 - $1200-1300
Emotiva 7 channel amp: $2000

Rotel RSP-1068 pre/pro: $1700
Rotel RMB-1075 5ch 130W amp: $1000

So price wise, even if I go with the Rotel setup, I save about $500-600 and lose a few of the bells and whistles that I could get with the Yamaha receiver.

My price point is about $3000, so I'm hoping they all go down in price by June when I plan on purchasing on all the equipmente at once (already have the speakers).

How important is THX Ultra II certification anyway? I believe the 2600 is certified? Any major sound differences - do I need a 7.1 system to notice it??

Thanks so much!

avab

 

[BobbyT]

Add me to the camp of having a receiver for a processor and outboard amplification. I have a Yamaha 4600 paired with a B&K Ref 200.5 amp. The Yamaha has ilink which is important to me and hdmi switching. Plus it is an outstanding processor.

 

[mtrycrafts]

But price comparison wise:
Yamaha VX-2600 - $1200-1300
Emotiva 7 channel amp: $2000

Rotel RSP-1068 pre/pro: $1700
Rotel RMB-1075 5ch 130W amp: $1000

Thanks so much!

avab

Well, if price is a concern and you still want power, why not consider that Yam 2600= $1200
7- Behringer A500, bridged, @ 300+ watts @$180 each=$1260

Total price $2460, or so.

 

[tdeluce]

YES! Despite the misconception that people like to spew out on forums, quality receivers from Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer Elite often outperform Separate dedicated processors in terms of processing power, bass management options, video connectivity, and often preamplifier performance. WE have for example found the Yamaha RX-V2600 and Denon AVR-5805 to have top notch preamplifier performance. To date I haven't measured a finer product, regardless of price than the AVR-5805. Its amp section is very respectable and its preamp section is simply stellar.

This explains why the 5805 is in my primary showcase system while the 2600 is used as a dedicated pre/pro in my family room system. I also use the Emotiva amp hooked to the 2600. Awesome combo that I would run away with any day of the week over most more costly separates.

Don't just assume that a dedicated pre pro has any advantages, especially in terms of performance over a well engineered receiver.

The truth of the matter is far more R&D goes into these receivers than most of the smaller audio companies could ever afford. There are quicker turn around times on receivers and they usually get the latest and greatest technology first. You also benefit from the cost savings of mass production of receivers and common circuit and parts used in a multi platform design. Unless you are spending uber bucks on a dedicated pre/pro, I would almost always opt for a mid level receiver as the pre/pro such as a Yammie 2600, Denon 2807, etc.

Consider the amp section in these receivers as a freebie to power multi zone audio or your rear effects channels. If these companies were to simply discard the amp sections and spit out a dedicated processor, it would either cost them the same or more money since they wouldn't sell as many and would have to charge more for the product!

Of course there are exceptions. If you desire a uniform look in your rack, and/or the simplicity of operation many dedicated pre/pros offer, than you may want to go the separates route. Just realize, this often doesn't guarantee better performance but almost always guarantees you to spend more money

I have been using my Denon AVR-4802 as a pre/pro but I am considering
the Anthem AVM40. Your comments are interesting. I don't believe I
care about room correction features so would you go with a Denon AVR-4806
( or Yamaha 2600, etc. ) as a pre/pro or would you go with something like
the Anthem AVM40?

What I like about the Anthem is that I can continue to have it upgraded
every other year for significantly cheaper than upgrading quality
receivers...

 

[Pyrrho]

I can't see why it is considered this way. The Yamaha, Denon, and Pioneers of the world have an advantage because all-in-one receivers are in the lower price ranges while seaparates are not.

Look at outlawaudio.com or av123.com at the separates offers they have. Both companies are offering competitive Pre/pro and receiver combos for under $1000. Audioholics has their preferences, just like anyone else. Look at Consumer Reports and the way they rate cars. Ask yourself, "Do I place as much weight on the benchmark requirements CR does?" A Jeep liberty does not fare well on their tests because towing capacity and off-road capability are not as important to them as confort and safety features.

In the recommended systems, they are not the best options. They are the ones that fit the needs perceived by the editors. That is all.

To more directly answer your question: Do you really want to pay for the extra amplifiers in a all-in-one system and then NOT USE THEM? Save. Put the money into a nice set of separates and never look back.

-AF

Receivers are typically less expensive than comparable preamps. Probably, this is due to mass production, which, for one thing, will require them to charge very little per unit to recover design costs. So, typically, one is actually wasting money when one buys a preamp instead of a receiver, even if one chooses to use a separate power amplifier, which, in most cases, is unnecessary.

FYI, Consumer Reports recommends the Jeep Liberty as a "Quick Pick" for a small SUV if off-roading or towing is important to you (see April 2006, page 23). They recognize the fact that different people have different needs, and they therefore make such recommendations. They do not suggest that people stupidly buy the top rated vehicle without reading the details in their reviews, though many people seem to imagine that they do, probably because such people don't ever bother reading the details. Consumer Reports is right, however, that in many ways the Jeep Liberty, well, really sucks.

 

[jcPanny]

Hiya blokes,

Thank ya for the enlightning argument. I'm all in agreement with the "extra power" argument that was posted.

Obviously the upgrade bug will eventually bite me in the arse and I'll be forced to sneak in another expensive receiver or pre/pro unit into the house (passed the wife of course).

I plan on a set of Energy C-7s, C-3 bookshelfs, and C-C1 center channel set. My subwoofer will be a low range SVS. So I'm not going with a 7.1 set because I feel that 5.1 right now is more than enough for my music and movie viewing needs.

That being said - some separates are obviously better at what they do: Anthem, Aragon, etc. I don't have that kind of money.

But price comparison wise:
Yamaha VX-2600 - $1200-1300
Emotiva 7 channel amp: $2000

Rotel RSP-1068 pre/pro: $1700
Rotel RMB-1075 5ch 130W amp: $1000

So price wise, even if I go with the Rotel setup, I save about $500-600 and lose a few of the bells and whistles that I could get with the Yamaha receiver.

My price point is about $3000, so I'm hoping they all go down in price by June when I plan on purchasing on all the equipmente at once (already have the speakers).

How important is THX Ultra II certification anyway? I believe the 2600 is certified? Any major sound differences - do I need a 7.1 system to notice it??

Thanks so much!

avab

You need to compare apples to apples. The 200 Watts / channel emotiva amplifier would be more comparable to the Rotel 1095 which is about $1700. Also, you can order the emotiva with anywhere from 2-7 channels, with 5 channels for $1719.
If you don't need that much power, check out the emotiva 125 Watts x6 Ultra lite amp for $700 or the combo with the UL pre-pro for $1100.

Personally, I would get the Yamaha and try its respectible on-board amp first. Use the money you saved for better speakers or a bigger, better SVS sub. If you need more power, look into Emotiva, Rotel, Outlaw, etc. down the road.