Is DTS Master Audio & Dolby True HD Overrated?

[Maestro]

Or am I not hearing it in it's full glory? I send it in to my legacy receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-56txi) through the analog multi channel inputs. Should be as good as an HDMI connection (which I don't have on my receiver.)

To my ears it lacks dynamic range and clarity compared to the toslink digital connection. Is it just me or have others experienced this? I also have the option to process the audio using the digital connection and using the straight multi channel inputs there are no processing options available.

The RUSH - Snakes & Arrows Blu Ray disc sounds better in regular DTS through a digital connection than the DTS Master Audio through the analog inputs on my receiver. Go figure..

 

[dapack69]

Does your BD player have the cability to decode the lossless audio?

 

[GranteedEV]

Not true at all.. the DAC in your receiver which decodes audio via toslink is totally different from the DAC in your blu-ray player which then sends it to the analog out. The digital to analogue conversion here is totally different. When you say it lacks dynamic range, it may be that the analogue outs on your Blu Ray player are sending a poorly decoded, compressed signal. Unless you've got an Oppo or something, your sound quality is probably going to be compromised right at this point before it even arrives at your receiver.

And no, the lossless codecs aren't overated. They're higher fidelity than CD-Quality sound AFAIK, whereas lossy codecs like DTS and DD5.1 were closer to mid-level mp3s IIRC.

 

[TLS Guy]

Or am I not hearing it in it's full glory? I send it in to my legacy receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-56txi) through the analog multi channel inputs. Should be as good as an HDMI connection (which I don't have on my receiver.)

To my ears it lacks dynamic range and clarity compared to the toslink digital connection. Is it just me or have others experienced this? I also have the option to process the audio using the digital connection and using the straight multi channel inputs there are no processing options available.

The RUSH - Snakes & Arrows Blu Ray disc sounds better in regular DTS through a digital connection than the DTS Master Audio through the analog inputs on my receiver. Go figure..

I'm afraid its equipment limitation. The loss less codecs are significantly better. Even speech has greater clarity.

 

[Maestro]

Well maybe some day it's time for an Oppo 83SE. So far I have used 2 different blu ray players with mixed results. A Panasonic DMP-BD85 and a Pioneer BDP-51FD. Surprisingly the Panasonic was the better sounding of the two players but not good enough.

Isn't it fun being addicted to constantly wanting to upgrade gear..

 

[3db]

I think the move to high def was a bigger plus for video than audio meaning the improvement in video was dramatically better in video than audio. None of my BluRay's that I own has a soundtrack that is better than the regular DTS soundtrack of Master & Commander or U571 on standard DVD (I'm not talking about the bass scenes either). On par yes but not better. I admit M&C and U571 are head and shoulders above most of my other standard DVD soundtracks so maybe these two are an exception rather than the rule.

 

[GlocksRock]

Just upgrade your receiver since your blu ray players have HDMI out and can bitstream the lossless codecs.

 

[sptrout]

Or am I not hearing it in it's full glory? I send it in to my legacy receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-56txi)

I am not familiar with your AVR, but one of the big issues with AVRs when using their analog input is that there is no bass management. (The analog input bypasses all digital processes including bass management and other things.) Therefore, bass management must be handled by the Blu-ray player (correctly) for you to have a chance of getting decent results. This always seems to be a hit or miss thing. The bass management of older Blu-ray players were terrible (Samsung's P1400 from personal experience), new players may do it correctly.

From your description of what you are hearing leads me to believe that you have no bass management in "the game" or it is not set-up correctly. Pay very close attention to the LFE level to make sure it is correct. MIA bass is almost always a level issue caused by lack of correct bass management.

EDIT: I will just add that poor, or no, bass management can be corrected at least to some degree, but you really have to know what to look for and how to correct it. I used to have a Denon 3300 connected to the P1400 and it was a real pain to get the audio even close to correct. Correct bass management was not possible with those two pieces of equipment. I just had to live with the limitations until I replaced the 3300 with a Onkyo 805.

 

[gqmagic]

Well maybe some day it's time for an Oppo 83SE. So far I have used 2 different blu ray players with mixed results. A Panasonic DMP-BD85 and a Pioneer BDP-51FD. Surprisingly the Panasonic was the better sounding of the two players but not good enough.

Isn't it fun being addicted to constantly wanting to upgrade gear..

I use the same blu-ray player with analog to my Marantz 8500 and I get/hear fabulous results!!

At 1st when I set the aux/2 input the sound was underwhelming, but when I set the 7.1 input the "Heavens opened up"

 

[Knucklehead90]

This is a loaded question. And the answer is ... it depends.
It depends on your speakers - on your BR player - and on your AVR.
First off speakers. Unless you have speakers - including a sub - capable of revealing the differences between the formats the rest doesn't matter.

As was pointed out earlier a BR player that doesn't handle bass management properly won't have the best sound quality - and IMO you should not use the 6/8 channel direct outputs - use the tosslink cable connection - let the AVR/prepro do what it was designed to do. Add to that many BR players have cheap DACs ... well you begin to see the problems that can mount up quickly with a 'lesser' BR player.

Having a quality AVR or prepro that can decode HD audio over HDMI is the best solution as you then have a decent room correction program working to help you get the best sound quality available to the speakers. No BR player I know of has room correction built in - using direct inputs (analog) to the AVR/prepro bypasses room correction in the models I'm familiar with. That alone can be huge drawback if you have a difficult room for decent audio.

 

[MatthewB.]

I disagree, I think the audio is leaps and bounds higher than the video. To me the video is a slight improvement, but the audio is waaaay better, YRMV.

 

[3db]

I disagree, I think the audio is leaps and bounds higher than the video. To me the video is a slight improvement, but the audio is waaaay better, YRMV.

Yes its considerably better than VHS BTW What is YRMV stand for?

 

[GlocksRock]

YRMV = Your Results May Vary

I think blu ray video is a lot better than DVD, but it also depends on what discs you are comparing, some dvds look really good, and some blu rays look no better than a dvd, and the same goes for the audio, but I've never really heard a bad audio track on a blu ray, just some rather boring ones.

 

[3db]

YRMV = Your Results May Vary

I think blu ray video is a lot better than DVD, but it also depends on what discs you are comparing, some dvds look really good, and some blu rays look no better than a dvd, and the same goes for the audio, but I've never really heard a bad audio track on a blu ray, just some rather boring ones.

Thanks

I agree. I haven't had a bad blu-ray audio track which i can't say for all my standard DVDs. However, I'm still sticking to my guns in that I haven't had a blu-ray audio that surppassed M&C and U571 on standard DVD.

 

[indcrimdefense]

I was rather late to upgrading to blu-ray, and stuck w/ my DVD player (cary audio DVD6) until early last year. i bought a pioneer elite BDP-05, and while i could quickly notice an improvement in sound quality (particularly the treble, although i have been accused of being hyper particular in the treble dept.) i was not necessarily blown away. i had to have the player decode as my pre-amp is all analog. all that changed when my BDP-09 arrived, which was designed specifically for idiots (lol) like me who have an analog multi channel pre-amp. the audio quality is significantly improved over the BDP-05 and my DVD player. gone is the at times shrill treble from dolby digital and DTS, and everything sounds better in DTS master and Dolby HD, although any movies released since 1/09 i have only watched in blu-ray. for movies i previously owned on DVD and later purchased on blu-ray, all have sounded better, Heat, Band of Brothers are particular stand outs, and i thought both sounded great on DVD.

As i have zero experience w/ other blu-ray players, i cannot assist in saying is it the set up or the player, or potentially both.

 

[GlocksRock]

Thanks

I agree. I haven't had a bad blu-ray audio track which i can't say for all my standard DVDs. However, I'm still sticking to my guns in that I haven't had a blu-ray audio that surppassed M&C and U571 on standard DVD.

So you don't think the lossless audio track on U571 and M&C sound better than they do on DVD?

 

[Pyrrho]

Or am I not hearing it in it's full glory? I send it in to my legacy receiver (Pioneer Elite VSX-56txi) through the analog multi channel inputs. Should be as good as an HDMI connection (which I don't have on my receiver.)

To my ears it lacks dynamic range and clarity compared to the toslink digital connection. Is it just me or have others experienced this? I also have the option to process the audio using the digital connection and using the straight multi channel inputs there are no processing options available.

The RUSH - Snakes & Arrows Blu Ray disc sounds better in regular DTS through a digital connection than the DTS Master Audio through the analog inputs on my receiver. Go figure..

There are multiple possible reasons for preferring one soundtrack to another, and the quality of the format is only one of the possibilities. Another, in your case, is that you are using different D/A converters, which, theoretically, could matter, but that is not the most likely explanation. You are also relying on totally separate setups (if you did not balance the levels and adjust the delays for the analog inputs, that alone could explain not liking what you are getting through them; usually, this is done using the options in the player, not the receiver, as receivers often do no processing at all to the multichannel analog inputs); this is something you should definitely check again to make sure you got it right (if I were going to place a bet on this issue, this is where I would place my money on something being amiss). There is also the possibility that the separate audio tracks are different mixes, aside from merely being different formats, and one might prefer one mix over another, with this having absolutely nothing to do with the formats.

The bottom line is this: Unless throwing away part of the sound is preferred by you to keeping it all, there is absolutely no way that your preference is due to the formats.

 

[bandphan]

I'd love to see this tested properly.

 

[3db]

So you don't think the lossless audio track on U571 and M&C sound better than they do on DVD?

Can't say becuase I don't have them in BluRay. What I'm saying is those two on standard dvd DTS soundtracks sound as good as any of my BluRay sound tracks. That all. I have already admitted that I don't own a bad blu ray sound track. All are top notch and much more consistent in quailty than standard DVD sound tracks. Maybe its the degree of realism that went into the soundtracks of these two movies.. I don't know. But when I'm watching these movies, I'm there in the movie.

 

[sparky77]

Have you set the speaker distances correctly in the bdp, and adjusted levels with an spl meter? If your distances are off you could be getting phase cancellations when using the analog inputs compared to if you have properly set up the avr for when you use the toslink connection.