Is Arcam receiver sound better than Yamaha or Denon?

[Apogee]

I listened to all three and Arcam 300 sounds 'a touch' better (all driving the B&W 603 S3), but my memory is NOT that good to pin point if it's worth paying 75 % more in cost and get 10% more better in performance?
As a practical person it doesn't make sense. But for most of you who do a lot of this comparision, what do you think?

Are European gears sounds better than Japanese gears? I know they have different design philosophy. thnx. I already bought the Yammy RXV2500 a year ago and very happy with it. Just to fulfill my curiosity bcos a friend is challenging me that Arcam is better bcos it uses better component = cost more.

 

[jaxvon]

Maybe. But if you want to do a really good comparison, you have to make sure the receivers you're comparing are level matched.

Scenario: You are comparing receivers A and B. You listen to both with a properly set up A/B switch. You find that receiver B sounds better than receiver A. You later find out that they are the same receiver. Why did B sound better? You also find out that the dealer turned up receiver B so it was playing a couple decibels higher than receiver A. Why would this make a difference? Studies have shown that people tend to equate louder with better. So if you thought the Adcom sounded a touch better, then it might've just been a little louder.

I personally don't think a 10% improvement is worth 75% extra cost.

 

[Xsound]

That is going to depend on how you define better. There are people here who love Yamaha and will tell you the Arcam isn't better. There are people who will tell you the Arcam is definitely better because it's British, and it's not Yamaha.

You need to figure out what you mean by better. And you also need to decide if you want to get caught up in the endless game of constantly looking for something that's better than what you currently have. Look hard enough, long enough, and you will convince yourself that you have to upgrade.

2 things in your initial post are key. Your friend is adamant that he is right and you are not sure about your position. So you are already setting yourself up to hear what he is telling you to hear. It would be interesting to hear him tell you exactly which components in the Arcam are "better" than the Yamaha, and what tests/lab results he is basing this on?

You have a good receiver. Would I pay 75% more to get "maybe a touch better"? Only if I don't have to worry about what I am paying for my toys (which I do). If I didn't have to watch the HT budget, I am not sure an Arcam receiver would be my target.

 

[Apogee]

you guys are right..., and everyone's eyes are different.

I should stop reading What's HIFI from UK, they tends to favour the European products....over Japanese. This is like Volvo versus Toyota, etc.

cheers

 

[Duffinator]

Widescreenreview did a really nice review of the Arcam AV300 several months ago and really thought it was one of the best receivers they have ever heard. It was a little over the top for my taste. Do a search in this forum and you will find a thread that I started on this topic. I'm very intrigued by the AV 300 although I have never heard it. The local dealer is about 45 miles away and I never seem to make time to go listen to it.

But I'm with the others on this, a 10% gain is not worth 75% more.

 

[j_garcia]

Widescreenreview did a really nice review of the Arcam AV300 several months ago and really thought it was one of the best receivers they have ever heard. It was a little over the top for my taste. Do a search in this forum and you will find a thread that I started on this topic. I'm very intrigued by the AV 300 although I have never heard it. The local dealer is about 45 miles away and I never seem to make time to go listen to it.

But I'm with the others on this, a 10% gain is not worth 75% more.

I've heard it breifly and it is a great sounding unit. I also spent a few hours with one of their integrated amps and I was very impressed with the sound quality.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I listened to all three and Arcam 300 sounds 'a touch' better (all driving the B&W 603 S3), but my memory is NOT that good to pin point if it's worth paying 75 % more in cost and get 10% more better in performance?
As a practical person it doesn't make sense. But for most of you who do a lot of this comparision, what do you think?

Are European gears sounds better than Japanese gears? I know they have different design philosophy. thnx. I already bought the Yammy RXV2500 a year ago and very happy with it. Just to fulfill my curiosity bcos a friend is challenging me that Arcam is better bcos it uses better component = cost more.

As jaxvon stated so well, level differences will mislead you. Also, human bias will too, unless the comparison is blinded, not knowing which one is in play and can guess enough time better than chance guessing

But the specs are a good starting place. If the frequency response is flat, it doesn't matter if it is a Japanese component or a European one.
Speakers are in a different category as they are the ones that convert the signal to acoustic output and they will not measure the same.

 

[mulester7]

.....take A to a pleasing "sweet-spot" level.....then take B to a pleasing "sweet-spot" level....if there is a difference to be heard, you will hear it, or you need to get into a different hobby....how can the word "bias" enter in here?....who cares which one wins?.....

 

[MDS]

Ah, Mule you just don't understand...

 

[PENG]

you guys are right..., and everyone's eyes are different.

I should stop reading What's HIFI from UK, they tends to favour the European products....over Japanese. This is like Volvo versus Toyota, etc.

cheers

If you meant the What HI*FI magazine, I posted part of their Nov 2004 megatest a little while ago. They compared the Arcam, Denon, and Pioneer receiver/DVD player combo. They pick the Denon pair the winner so if they tend to favour the European products over Japanese, they didn't show it in that review.

The Arcam AVR300 sounds excellent but I won't say it sounds any different or better than the comparable (spec/price) Yamaha or Denon models. Go and listen for yourself.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ah, Mule you just don't understand...

You give him books and what happens? Rips out the pages and eats the cover? Or was that the ...?

 

[mulester7]

You give him books and what happens? Rips out the pages and eats the cover? Or was that the ...?

.....books....books....to tell my ears what sounds good....assign meters to those same woods....for the bazillion-octillianth time....I don't need that, thank you, but please, feel free to do just that, if you feel the need....I'm not pulling for either component, and want to know which is which to assign bad or good rememberings....you guys can put on four Zorro Masks with no eye slits and slip into an elephant suit for all I care.....MDS, I've shocked the best of 'em, Buddy.....

 

[ca_newbee]

I don't agree, Denon and NAD especially are often the top picks. Denon has ruled the A/V ratings in the UK magazines for the last few years

 

[Buckle-meister]

Denon has ruled the A/V ratings in the UK magazines for the last few years

Ca_newbee, I wouldn't put too much weight behind what the likes of What Hi-Fi etc print.

Regards

 

[Duffinator]

I don't agree, Denon and NAD especially are often the top picks. Denon has ruled the A/V ratings in the UK magazines for the last few years

Yep, when all is said and done most receivers at any given price point are going to sound similar. So then price and features come into play and that's where the Denon's shine. But the Yamaha's always cost just a bit less. Flip a coin, you can't go wrong with any of these three receivers.

 

[Apogee]

Thnx all for replying. I did a SEARCH on this Arcam thing this site and found many folks have asked similar questions and the answers were good. One thing that PENG brought up this that 'scale of the economy' - ARCAM and ROTEL sells a very small volume and therefore the purchase power for parts / labour to build their unit/models are definitely higher. I'm working for the world's 4th largest electronic manufacturer (Celestica) and this theory applies to everyone of our customers - IBM, EMC, Juniper, etc....the higher your volume, the cost is less. Yamaha and Denon are like Toyota and Honda...the more they sell the more profit they get to do their Research and Development (R&D). The other folks...well, R&D funding is limited. But I would came to one agreement, I would NOT pay 75% more in cost for 10-20% better in sound. So what if the mid range (or whatever) is just a touch better ... which is always the case with this electronic hobby. I drive an 2002 Accord, mass produce and it's reliable and it performances well for its price. Cheers.