Internet Scams (Case for B&M’s?)

[RMK!]

I have been doing a lot of AV buying and selling lately (well mostly A) and it is amazing how much fraud is going on. I have had incidents on Ebay and AudiogoN where if I wasn’t paying attention I would have been thoroughly fleeced by criminals. I will give you a synopsis of two incidents.

1. I was selling a subwoofer on AudiogoN and received an over asking price offer outside the system via email from a female Dr. from Georgia. She said she wanted it for her son’s birthday and wanted a quick transaction. I replied that was fine with me and accepted her offer. Her next email indicated that she was going to use Bidpay on the recommendation of a friend and that I would next hear from them and she would use her FedEx account and arrange for the sub to be picked up. I received an official looking e-mail from Bidpay with the transaction info and a ship to of Nigeria along with a prepaid FedEx shipping label. I then e-mailed the good doctor and told her that I was concerned about shipping out of country and I had emailed Bidpay (the real one) with the order number asking for confirmation. I received another letter from the DR saying the Sub was for her church's (in Nigeria) 25th anniversary celebration and "please don’t let them down". I also received an e-mail from Bidpay saying that the transaction was legitimate and that I would be sent a Cashiers Check after I had shipped the sub. There were typos and grammatical errors in both the doctors and Bidpay emails. The real Bidpay did not respond to my verification request for two days. Had I shipped the sub, I would have been without recourse.

2. I wanted to purchase a sub and found one on ebay at a good price. I made an offer and was counter offered at a number that I accepted. I was told by the seller (a NY based internet electronics company (PM me if you want the name) that the transaction would be through an ebay Safe Harbor escrow account. I again received a very official looking email from ebay that explained how to pay via an e-gold account and that I was totally protected and the funds would not be released to the seller until I had received and approved the merchandise. If I was not happy with the merchandise, I could return it at the seller’s expense. Again, ebay took two days to respond to the authenticity of the supposed ebay documents I had received.

Some interesting points, neither ebay nor bidpay have telephone numbers that you can call to immediately determine the authenticity of messages supposedly sent by them. It is a very convoluted process to get the correct email address to send in questions of this type. Also, neither ebay nor bidpay seemed particularly interested in pursuing these criminals who were using their company names to commit this larceny. They both pointed me to a Govt. website where I could file complaints against these people but they seemed disinterested in the details (probably like you are right about now). I have to believe that they do not want information like this let out and are concerned about frightening the GP regarding internet transactions.

To sum up this long post, I have had many good experiences with internet purchases using ebay and AudiogoN. I have only been scammed (actually lost money) once and that was a relatively low dollar value deal from an e-bay seller with hundreds of positive feedback comments. So I will continue to buy and sell via these methods but it is definitely caveat emptor. Oh and seller too.

 

[Tomorrow]

Good story...good advice Hidog. T'anx.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes, great story and sound advice for all to follow. A friend had a similar event on a sewing machine. But someone in the chain was interested and acted. Too bad that the two companies are washing their hands of this. The general public is too trusting. I bet millions are scammed and the hurdles in the way of correcting this are too high so it will be with us for a long time

 

[Rob Babcock]

Over time I've come to see the wisdom of paying with and accepting only Postal Money Orders. Paypal is pretty shady themselves, and I'm really leery of using any similar "services."

If the person I want to do business with won't accept a Postal Money Order, I'll simply buy or sell to someone else.

 

[Tomorrow]

Paypal is pretty shady themselves.

What causes you to say that?

 

[mike c]

internet and nigeria simply doesnt belong in the same sentence when it involves money.

ENJOY!
http://www.419eater.com

btw, the site above MIGHT ask for donations bla bla ... it might be a scam in itself, but its very good reading.

 

[Rÿche 1]

I've been doing business on paypal for years, and never had a problem...

 

[Tomorrow]

I've been doing business on paypal for years, and never had a problem...

Likewise. I hope Rob comes back on with some wisdom on the matter. 'Tis concerning.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yeah, I have almost never dealt with any form of payment from anyone other than via Pay-Pal. The only exceptions being live transactions and cash. I am able to securely log into my account directly (https://www.paypal.com ) and then I know that I am at the right place and am actually seeing the transaction.

I also am very wary of overseas business and let people know that I have to physically have the cash in my account before I will consider shipping.

Feedback speaks worlds for a person and sticking to your guns to protect yourself is always the way to go.

 

[FLZapped]

What causes you to say that?

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

-Bruce

 

[FLZapped]

Over time I've come to see the wisdom of paying with and accepting only Postal Money Orders. Paypal is pretty shady themselves, and I'm really leery of using any similar "services."

If the person I want to do business with won't accept a Postal Money Order, I'll simply buy or sell to someone else.

I prefer to use Money Orders to pay as well. that way I have a name and an address if there is any problem.

-Bruce

 

[RMK!]

Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution here. Money Orders are a total leap of faith with no recourse (except legal) for the buyer. Paypal’s guarantee seems a little thin, and the feedback system is significantly flawed. For me, ebay is the biggest concern, AudiogoN seems much safer for audio transactions as it is a focused site and probably little too esoteric for the crooks.

 

[annunaki]

Once, in seling a product on ebay, I had a guy send me a fake copy of a USPS money order. All he did was photoshop some money order and send me a copy. No where on the order was there a USPS logo or links to their site. Nothing at all. I told him I was not interested in his scam, and reported him to ebay. His account was deleted soon after. I get emails quite often from the Nigerian people. They are relentless, and they always have a new scheme.

 

[j_garcia]

Thanks Hidog. Good info.

I have used Audiogon on a number of occasions, and I usually have a lot of questions for the person. As of yet, I've had excellent luck with both Paypal and Audiogon. If information is not quickly forthcoming or sounds in any way shady, I will typically tell them I'm not interested. More often than not, when I send the first barrage of questions, I won't even get a response from people who are not serious about selling the product. I like Audiogon's mututal feedback system - both parties have to review and approve the feedback left by the other person and then approved by Audiogon.

I don't mind going after something like a used receiver for $200-300, but when you get up to something that is newer and in the $1K and up range, I'd prefer to go to a local shop and pick one up new, just because I want a place to go to and someone to deal directly with if it has a problem.

 

[Tomorrow]

I prefer to use Money Orders to pay as well. that way I have a name and an address if there is any problem.

-Bruce

Bruce,

Money Orders have their own issues, such as forged/faked copies that burn buyers. And the anti-Paypal link you sent was interesting....but not too different from complaints one would see against any lending/admin institution.

There really is no perfectly SAFE way to do these internet transactions...if it's used it will be misused. This is the same issue as the game-cheating thread. There are perfect A$$es out there that want want want to rip you off and have their own built-in excuses for doing so.

Best advice....caveat emptor...buyer beware.

 

[RMK!]

Once, in seling a product on ebay, I had a guy send me a fake copy of a USPS money order. All he did was photoshop some money order and send me a copy. No where on the order was there a USPS logo or links to their site. Nothing at all. I told him I was not interested in his scam, and reported him to ebay. His account was deleted soon after. I get emails quite often from the Nigerian people. They are relentless, and they always have a new scheme.

The Government site I was directed to where you can report these internet frauds had several warnings about this type of activity emanating from Nigeria. Hmmm, wonder where they got the technology...our tax dollars at work?

 

[soundsfine]

Wow. I have only had good experiences with PayPal. In fact, last Christmas I bought a camera for my wife. The guy I bought it from ran a legitimate business for nine months, then posted a million dollars worth of goods that people would likely want for gifts. The prices were carefully set to be just below the current 'bay selling price. I took the hook.

PayPal was great! Once the secret service verified that the guy had taken the money and left the country, they refunded ALL of my money, including shipping charges!

If you want to see the tragic history, check out the ebay feedback for "qianfangcompany"

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Over time I've come to see the wisdom of paying with and accepting only Postal Money Orders. Paypal is pretty shady themselves, and I'm really leery of using any similar "services."

If the person I want to do business with won't accept a Postal Money Order, I'll simply buy or sell to someone else.

What's the safety in Postal Money Orders?

 

[Matt34]

I had a guy flake on me once during an Ebay transaction involving an AC compressor. Calls and emails were not returned and after 2 weeks I contacted paypal, who I sent the money through, and they advised they would start an investigation. 5 days later they found in favor of me and I got my money back.

I will continue to use paypal or USPS money orders as my choice of payment.

 

[mtrycrafts]

What's the safety in Postal Money Orders?

I don't see that either. PMO is gone once it is sent, or filled out.
Ne refunds, no credits.
One should ask the PO next time about them. No stop payments as on a check, it is cash through the mail, in essence, no?