Integrated amp or AV Receiver?

[skibmg]

Hi All, first time post here. Now that I am no longer a student, it is time to deep six the crappy Sony HTIB system I have had for years. My wife and I mostly listen to stereo music, watch tv, and watch dramas and comedies with our Bluray player. Our room is relatively small (13x17x7, 1550 cu ft) and so I am thinking of starting out with only a 2-channel system. I think speaker wise I will either get some PSB Image (B25) or Paradigm Mini Monitors, still deciding between these.

My question is this. Integrated amp, or AV Receiver. The rest of my setup is below. We do have a Harmony remote currently, so selecting the TV source is no big deal once programmed.

LG 37" HDTV
LG BD390, hooked to TV via HDMI, optical out to receiver
Cablevision (Yuck), hooked to TV via HDMI, optical out to receiver
Wii, component to TV two-channel to receiver
Apple Airport express, two channel to receiver

I want to prioritize sound quality over features and am fine running full analog, rather receiver doing processing. What are your all opinions?

Thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sound-wise, you won't hear any difference between a good receiver vs a good integrated amp vs a pre-pro + amp separate as long as you use Direct Mode (defeat all EQs, Tones, DSPs, etc.).

So I would go either of 3 routes here.

1) Receiver

2) Receiver + Amp

3) Pre-Pros + Amp

The Speakers and their interaction with your room acoustics is the most important thing.

 

[sholling]

They will sound the same so I'd pick the receiver with the features that you want.

 

[skibmg]

Our budget is somewhat limited, so I was thinking a Marantz 4002 or 4003 receiver if I went that route. Will I be disappointed in the amp sections of these units? I was targeting these models since they have preouts, something I am finding to be missing on most of the current model year receivers.

 

[KEW]

Unless you get freaked out by the idea of refurbished:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR4002/Marantz/Sr4002-Receiver-80w-X-7ch-Hdmi-Home-Theater-Surround/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR4003/Marantz/Sr4003-Dolby-Digital-Ex/dts-Es-Surround-Receiver-/1.html

They have outstanding customer support.

Interesting - if you order from accessories4less via Amazon you save another $30 on the 4003:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001EU0HLM/ref=dp_olp_refurbished?ie=UTF8&qid=1268155637&sr=8-2&condition=refurbished

No affiliation, just a happy customer.

 

[njedpx3]

Our budget is somewhat limited, so I was thinking a Marantz 4002 or 4003 receiver if I went that route. Will I be disappointed in the amp sections of these units? I was targeting these models since they have preouts, something I am finding to be missing on most of the current model year receivers.

This is an excellent stategy. With the preouts you can always add external amps if the Marantz does not provide adequate power and headroom. I am preferential to Marantz, quality build and great features.


Peace and Good Sound!

Forest Man

 

[sholling]

Nothing with a seriously beefy 7.1+ amplifier section is going to run less than $1000. But You can get something plenty good enough for most people for $600-800, or $500 if you are willing to buy refurbished. The TX-SR707 has preouts so you could always add an external amplifier later.

http://store.audioholics.com/product.php/2822/0
http://powersellernyc.com/product/view/Pioneer-VSX21TXH-Elite-AV-Receiver-24855.html

Or you could splurge on a refurbished Onkyo TX-NR1007 for $1000. It's a whopping 51lbs and I assume that like other Onkyos it will run a bit warm so plan on giving it some room for air to flow.

 

[j_garcia]

Are you going to go stereo only? Do you need HDMI (blu-ray)? Integrated amps are generally stereo only and if you went that way, I feel they have better amp sections than any receiver in the same price range. They also typically don't have any kind of video capabilities however and as a result, no HDMI. So if you intend to run video through it, you need a receiver. I don't think you'd be disappointed with those Marantz units. My dad has an older 4300 and it has enough power for his room which is a little smaller than yours but with smaller speakers as well. As long as you get speakers with decent sensitivity, you should be fine with one of those guys. AFAIK, even the 400x series have preamp outs so you could add an amp down the road if needed.

 

[3db]

Hi All, first time post here. Now that I am no longer a student, it is time to deep six the crappy Sony HTIB system I have had for years. My wife and I mostly listen to stereo music, watch tv, and watch dramas and comedies with our Bluray player. Our room is relatively small (13x17x7, 1550 cu ft) and so I am thinking of starting out with only a 2-channel system. I think speaker wise I will either get some PSB Image (B25) or Paradigm Mini Monitors, still deciding between these.

My question is this. Integrated amp, or AV Receiver. The rest of my setup is below. We do have a Harmony remote currently, so selecting the TV source is no big deal once programmed.

LG 37" HDTV
LG BD390, hooked to TV via HDMI, optical out to receiver
Cablevision (Yuck), hooked to TV via HDMI, optical out to receiver
Wii, component to TV two-channel to receiver
Apple Airport express, two channel to receiver

I want to prioritize sound quality over features and am fine running full analog, rather receiver doing processing. What are your all opinions?

Thanks

If there's a chance that you may go to a surround set-up later on , spring for an A/V receiver now and avoid buying twice. Both the PSB's and the Paradigms you are looking are highly efficicient and it won't take much power to make them sing loud. If possib;e visit some frineds of yours that have a HT set-up, see if you like the extra immsersive sound you get from Home Theater and determine if its worth the extar cost to you.

 

[skibmg]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I have been quite torn about this for a while now. I was looking at those refurbs exactly, the Amazon link in a bonus. To answer one of the posts questions about needing HDMI, the answer is no, my Harmony remote does quite well with switching for us. Certainly, my wife and I have not ruled out surround sound in the future, which I why I was still considering an AV Receiver. Also, it seems (correct my if I am wrong), that if I later add a sub to fill in the bottom an AV Receiver will handle bass management better.

My next question was regarding the speakers and the Marantz receivers. The PSBs have a sensitivity of 91 dB with nominal 6 ohm impedance, while the Paradigms have 92 dB sensitivity with nominal 8 ohm impedance. Should I be concerned about the PSBs when playing somewhat loud, or with sources with lots of volume changes?

 

[j_garcia]

Also, it seems (correct my if I am wrong), that if I later add a sub to fill in the bottom an AV Receiver will handle bass management better.

Yes, this is correct.

My next question was regarding the speakers and the Marantz receivers. The PSBs have a sensitivity of 91 dB with nominal 6 ohm impedance, while the Paradigms have 92 dB sensitivity with nominal 8 ohm impedance. Should I be concerned about the PSBs when playing somewhat loud, or with sources with lots of volume changes?

The presumption there will be that the 6 Ohm speakers will draw more current than the 8 Ohm ones, but with those kinds of sensitivity, I wouldn't worry about it. All Marantz amps are rated to 6 Ohms minimum.

 

[Jeff R.]

If you are not going to be adding any surround sound for a long time, you may find it better to go with an older model receiver that give you a little more power and just not have the latest decoding such as the DTS-Master or DTS-True HD, etc......


You can go a little older like one of these and get a little extra in the amp section.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5001/Marantz/Sr5001-Receiver-90w-X-7ch-Hdmi-Home-Theater-Surround/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6001/Marantz/Sr6001-Receiver-100w-X-7ch-Hdmi-Home-Theater-Surround/1.html

Good Luck

 

[Cristofori]

Hello skibmg,

Consider the new Marantz SR4023 receiver. It has the pre-out/main-in inputs, a subwoofer input, and all the features you could want in a 2-channel receiver (except HD radio). It is rated for 100wpc into 4 Ohms, so it can certainly handle your 6 Ohm PSB's. I just got mine recently and it's been great so far.

If you can afford it, go for one of the better integrated amps. They are generally built better with higher quality parts, look nicer, have toroidal transformers, and yes, may possibly sound slightly better also, at least with the better phono pre-amps, etc., usually used in them. They can also be more flexible (what if you decide you want a tuner with HD radio some day?).

Then there is the issue of re-sale. You will find it easier to sell your integrated at a later date at less of a loss, as those are the units audiophiles tend to prefer.

It's up to you, but there are some great choices out there at reasonable prices.

 

[skers_54]

I'm using a Marantz 4001 with Paradigm Monitor series speakers and I'm very happy. The Marantz has plenty of power, low floor noise and runs cool (much cooler than Onkyos). Good CS too. I just got my unit back from the service center (had old firmware that was causing some issues with HDMI) and the experience was pretty hassle-free. I've compared the amps in the 4001 to a pro amp with about 50% more power and couldn't tell a difference in my small room. So Marantz gets a big thumbs up from me .

I'd recommend a receiver over an integrated amp. While what Cristofori said is generally true, you'd be severely limited in your ability to upgrade. Plus it's more difficult to integrate a sub without adding additional components. With Blu-Ray as a source and your budget, I'd definitely go for a receiver.

 

[skibmg]

So I had a chance to demo some Paradigms yesterday and those are the speakers for me. My plan is to get either Atoms of Mini monitors right now in stereo only, possibly a sub too. Later, I'll either move the Atoms to the surrounds and then get some Minis, or if I get the Minis now add some atoms later. I'll also a center channel a later date too. If I go this route, would the Onkyo TX-SR607 be sufficient, or should I target something with preouts? I dont really what to drop the coin on something like the SR707. I bring up Onkyo as the dealer I went to said that although the Marantz have great amp sections, there HDMI abilities leave something to be desired and plus it seems like the 607 is pretty future proof compared to the Marantz.

Opinions?

 

[skers_54]

So I had a chance to demo some Paradigms yesterday and those are the speakers for me. My plan is to get either Atoms of Mini monitors right now in stereo only, possibly a sub too. Later, I'll either move the Atoms to the surrounds and then get some Minis, or if I get the Minis now add some atoms later. I'll also a center channel a later date too. If I go this route, would the Onkyo TX-SR607 be sufficient, or should I target something with preouts? I dont really what to drop the coin on something like the SR707. I bring up Onkyo as the dealer I went to said that although the Marantz have great amp sections, there HDMI abilities leave something to be desired and plus it seems like the 607 is pretty future proof compared to the Marantz.

Opinions?

Actually, no receiver sold right now is future proof because none of them have HDMI 1.4. Pioneer has some coming out in April in this price range, but their amps are taking a huge hit (and no preouts, and only 5.1).

The difference between the Marantz and Onkyo HDMI capabilities is that you'll miss out on the pretty symbols for the lossless codecs. The Marantz can accept them but they have to be decoded in the player. The 607 has many more creature comfort features, such as video upconverting (probably worse than your tv's capabilities) and transcoding (which is nice). There's also more HDMI inputs too. Marantz gives you a much better remote though and runs much cooler. If you won't have much ventilation around the receiver, you'll want to take this into consideration.

I've used my Atoms with both a Marantz 4001 and an Onkyo 506. Subjectively, I thought the Marantz sounded a bit better. It sounded like there was less crosstalk, lower floor noise, and more accurate filters BUT this could easily be placebo or better cable management (so less interference). It was noticible when using pink noise to set the levels, as there was more "noise" that could be heard in the other speakers (but only when right next to another speaker). I liked the "feel" of setting up the Marantz better too, but YMMV. I wasn't a big fan of Audyssey 2EQ (which is also on the 607). It didn't really seem to do anything sonically, but it was nice for setting levels and delays. MultiEQ I like much better.

I don't think either the 4003 or 607 will have an issue powering any speakers from the Monitor series. I like my Marantz better than my Onkyo, but it's not as fair a comparison as the 4003 v. 607. If you like the features of the Onkyo better, then choose that one.

 

[j_garcia]

Receivers are like PCs: there is no such thing as future proof. They are only future proof until something new comes out. That's why you get something with good pre- and amp sections since those are things that will still be useful over time.

 

[3db]

Receivers are like PCs: there is no such thing as future proof. They are only future proof until something new comes out. That's why you get something with good pre- and amp sections since those are things that will still be useful over time.

Its better to get a good amp. Amps are futur proof because there is nothing to upgrade. Receivers and pre pros are not futur proof as there's always something new popping up like this ridiculous HDMI4 .

 

[3db]

So I had a chance to demo some Paradigms yesterday and those are the speakers for me. My plan is to get either Atoms of Mini monitors right now in stereo only, possibly a sub too. Later, I'll either move the Atoms to the surrounds and then get some Minis, or if I get the Minis now add some atoms later. I'll also a center channel a later date too. If I go this route, would the Onkyo TX-SR607 be sufficient, or should I target something with preouts? I dont really what to drop the coin on something like the SR707. I bring up Onkyo as the dealer I went to said that although the Marantz have great amp sections, there HDMI abilities leave something to be desired and plus it seems like the 607 is pretty future proof compared to the Marantz.

Opinions?

Compare them against teh new PSB Image and Alpha series to seeh which you like better. If you haven't heard surrround sound yet at a friends house, please do so. It will really tell you if your heart is interested in it or not. Then you can plan accordingly.