Insignia IS-HC040917 S-Video vs. Composite

[gorfle]

Hi all:

I purchased an Insignia IS-HC040917 Digital Home Theater Amplifier for my home theater system.

My DVD and Media Lounge support S-Video, so I sent S-Video to the Amp. The Amp has S-Video out, and my TV has S-Video in, so I sent the video feed out from the Amp to the TV also over S-Video.

So my DVD and Media Lounge go Svideo into the Amp, and then S-Video on to the TV. No problem.

My old VCR, though, only has composite out. No problem, I thought - the Amp also allows composite video in (and out). My hope was that it would take the composite in, and still go out on the S-Video (even though I know the composite is lesser quality than the S-Video). But I get no picture when on the VCR channel - only sound.

The owner's manual says:

"It is important that the same type of cable (S-video or composite) that is connected from the Home Theater to the TV is used to connect the LD player or DVD player to the Home Theater.

So my guess is that if you have S-Video running from the Amp to the TV, all of your video inputs must be S-Video?

I can get around this by running coax in from the cable wall outlet through the VCR over to the TV, but I was hoping to do composite video over to the amp so that all audio/video feeds route through the amp for consistency of operation.

Thanks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

What you are asking the Insignia to do is called transcoding from composite video to s-video. While this is a very common thing in mid-level and better audio gear, it is rarely found on inexpensive entry level equipment.

The most obvious solution is to run composite video AND s-video from the Insignia to your TV then when you switch from DVD to VCR you also switch the TV from the S-Video input to the composite video input.

Another solution is that there are small composite video to s-video converters available. Like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tributaries-C2SX-Composite-to-S-video-Converter-adapter_W0QQitemZ330067841453QQihZ014QQcategoryZ73389QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[gorfle]

Hi BMXTRIX,

Thanks so much for the quick reply.

I just got off the phone with Insignia's outsourced-to-India technical support, and it was a disaster. Their folks don't even understand the question I'm asking, let alone how to find a solution.

I think you are right - thank you for telling me the terminology. Basically, I have set up the amp to do S-video out to the TV, and the amplifier does not seem to support this "transcoding" you speak of.

This is very very poor in my view, because basically if you use S-Video to go to your TV, it kills all the composite video input feeds, including the ones on the front of the unit - the ones you would typically use for temporarily plugging in a camcorder, or a digital camera, or whatever.

Yes, you are exactly right, I could run BOTH S-video AND Composite out from my amp to the TV (the amp and the TV support both), but, as you note, I would have to remember to switch the TV aux input in between S-video and Composite manually each time I switched to a different device. I don't want to go that route, though. The wife will never remember which device requires which input.

THANK YOU so much for the small composite-to-S-video converter you pointed out. That would do the trick exactly, converting my old VCR's composite output to S-video. That is exactly what I am going to do.

What I have done in the mean time is I have hooked up the VCR the "old" way - my cable TV comes from the wall, goes through the VCR, and on to the TV, using plain old coax. I've still got the audio routed from the VCR to the amp using the RCA jacks, but the video goes to the TV via channel 3. It's much easier on my old RCA TV to switch to channel 3 than to change the aux input from S-video to Composite (that is burried in a menu).

But the ultimate fix is to just make sure that all of your inputs are the same, and that they match your output.

So, for future readers who might find this article, this is for you:

On the Insignia IS-HC040917 Digital Home Theater Amplifier, the device does not transcode between S-Video and Composite Video. This means that whatever output you have to your TV, all of your inputs need to match that. So if you have S-Video going to your TV from the Amp, the composite video inputs will not work!.

This is a very poor oversight in my opinion, because if you have hooked this thing up to your TV using the superior S-Video output, you just shut down the composite input feed on the front (and of course the rear also) of the amplifier! This means no hooking up the family camcorder or digital camera to your amp to send over to your TV.

Thanks again, BMXTRIX!

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm glad I could help, but I feel that is important that you understand that this is not a feature that was overlooked.

It was a feature that you didn't pay for.

An active transcoder may add $30 or more quite easily to the cost of a piece of A/V gear. So, while it is a standard addition to more expensive pieces, the lesser expensive gear, like yours, will leave that piece off as they just want to keep the bottom line as low as possible.

In fact, until a few years ago, it was standard practice to run composite video, s-video, and component video to a display.

I still recommend that people run composite video, component video, and HDMI to any display that has wiring that is difficult to put in place. This is the absolute minimum for cabling that should ever be run, in my opinion.

A bit of reading and research on A/V forums before any purchases can greatly assist you with free knowledgable information on potential purchases that fit your budget. Though, this receiver, at about $150.00 is right in line with pretty much anything you will find for that much money...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7016463&st=IS-HC040917+&type=product&id=1099394773266

The entry level Yamaha by comparison...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7687229&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03031&id=1134703786117
...really doesn't give you much more for the extra 50 bucks it costs. It does give component video and HDTV level switching, but no transcoding. Once again, very entry level.

It is not until you are closer to $400 or so that transcoding becomes more of a 'standard' feature on some receivers. Not all receivers mind you, but some. Yamaha has a good website where you can compare models and see which ones include s-video, component video, and HDMI transcoding built in. They very best receivers actually include scalers which don't just transcode, but process the video to improve overall video quality.

 

[gorfle]

I'm glad I could help, but I feel that is important that you understand that this is not a feature that was overlooked.

Yeah, I've been pondering this all afternoon, and I think you're right - mostly.

I figured, "Hey, if I had 3 separate devices, 2 S-Video and 1 Composite, I'd fully expect to have to switch my TV between sources, so why not have to do this even though they all route through this device?"

Still, as a newbie, I have to say it's highly counter intuitive. One would expect to run one output from the "output", and send it over to the input on the TV. One would also expect to pick the best quality option if there were multiple possibilities to choose from. So to me, it was quite logical when I saw my options for video output were composite or S-Video to pick the S-Video, and that's what I ran over to the TV (only 3 feet away mind you - in a side cabinet). I just assumed that the lower quality inputs would be routed (transcoded) over onto the output that was actually hooked up to the TV (S-Video in my case).

Of course doing this means that none of the composite video inputs on the amplifier are useful.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I agree - this is not an oversight, it's just the way the low-end equipment works - the S-Videos run straight through the amp on the S-Video lines, and the composite inputs run straight through on the composite lines.

I think what annoys me here is that the documentation for the amplifier doesn't explicitly say this anywhere. It is hinted at (as I quoted in my original post) but it doesn't really explain what is going on and why. It certainly isn't on the packaging material.

I have to confess that I didn't research this purchase at all, and it was actually an impulse buy. I happened to be out one night and stopped by Best Buy to look at stereos that had more audio input jacks than our old one, because my wife wanted to add a CD changer and I was getting a Media Lounge media player for Christmas. This thing was cheap (but not the cheapest) and had a ton if input ports on the back, so I bought it.

Thanks again

 

[Seth=L]

What do you think of the sound? How powerfull is the receiver? Have you had any issues with it shutting down at moderate volumes?

I bought one of these and had problems with the power, but I believe it was user error that caused this problem.

If you don't mind I would very much like to know how you like the sound of the receiver in stereo and in surround sound modes.

 

[gorfle]

What do you think of the sound? How powerfull is the receiver? Have you had any issues with it shutting down at moderate volumes?

I have not turned the volume up beyond around 40dB, so I'm not sure.

If you don't mind I would very much like to know how you like the sound of the receiver in stereo and in surround sound modes.

I only have 4 speakers. I don't think they are very good, but I don't know much about speakers. The two up front are "Aiwa" that came with the old receiver/tape deck/CD player that I replaced, and the back two are "JBL Pro Performers" which the previous owner of this house had installed. I wired them up as front left, front right, surround left and surround right. I don't have center speakers and I don't have a subwoofer. That said, in "6 Channel" mode sound comes out of all 4 speakers and sounds good to me.

I know the receiver supports a whole bunch of sound formats (DTS 5.1, Pro Logic, etc. etc. etc.) but I don't have a clue what any of that is. I ran digital audio outputs from the DVD and the MediaLounge to the receiver because I heard it was better quality plus the receiver could automatically detect how the sound was encoded. I do notice whenever I switch to, say, the DVD player by default it only has 3 speakers active which only drive my front two speakers - I have to switch it to 6 Channel every time I change the input to get my front and rear speakers to work.

 

[BMXTRIX]

gorfle - you really need to do some research and ask some questions. You are just uninformed on the products right now and if you are going to be spending any money on this hobby then it makes sense to understand what things are and why they perform a certain way so you can be an informed consumer.

LIKE: When you setup your A/V receiver, (make sure you go through the setup!) let it know that you only have 4 speakers hooked up and no subwoofer. This way, the receiver should automatically redirect sound to the correct speakers instead of to the non-existent speakers.

Also, in DVD mode, set it for 'auto' surround detection. Surround does not mean that every speaker plays audio at the same time. On a DVD the rear channels are used for special effects, ambience, and localization of specific sounds. When you hear someone speak, and they are on screen in front of you, you should NEVER hear their voice coming out of surround speakers which are overhead or behind you. What sense would that make? They aren't standing behind you! They are in front of you.

Likewise, when a plane flies overhead from front to back in the room, it should start in the surround speakers behind you, then build up, move to the front speakers, fade from the rear speakers, and then disappear in front of you with the front speakers. 6-channel stereo is something I like for CDs because it more evenly fills my space with audio, but when I watch movies, it it is important that the audio goes where it is designed to go.

As for your video connundrum, if you are aware of the need to switch your display between s-video and composite video, then you can simply hook up the composite video cable from the receiver and do the switching manually. You may also consider that you can add the composite video cable to your DVD player, and leave your TV on composite most of the time, but then switch it to s-video when you are around watching a DVD for slightly improved quality. Keep in mind that s-video is just a bit better that composite, and component video is better still, and everything you are dealing with right now is a long way from HDTV - and your receiver isn't equipped to handle HDTV at all.

As for what a 'lot' of inputs is...

This is a Denon 2807 receiver, it is what many woudl consider a pretty standard mid-level receiver. Not great, but a long way from the sub $300 price point entry level stuff. Mid-level pretty much runs from about $500 to about $1,500 or so. And while what you got wasn't the 'cheapest' that Best Buy had, it doesn't offer anything more really than what the chepest has except a few added inputs.

Check this out... about 4 times the number of connectors on the back:

 

[gorfle]

gorfle - you really need to do some research and ask some questions. You are just uninformed on the products right now and if you are going to be spending any money on this hobby then it makes sense to understand what things are and why they perform a certain way so you can be an informed consumer.

Hi BMX: I can appreciate your enthusiasm, but remember, this isn't a hobby for me, though I am getting more interested in the course of this conversation. Remember - all I set out to do was find a stereo that had more audio inputs than the old college-dorm Aiwa Walmart unit I had so I could hook up an external DVD player and a MediaLounge player in addition to the inputs from the TV. Now that everything is up and working with this new receiver, I'm not likely to be buying more A/V stuff for a while, except maybe that composite-to-S-Video converter you mentioned.

Also, in DVD mode, set it for 'auto' surround detection.

Supposedly, all digital inputs are automatically detected for how they are supposed to play. Both the DVD and MediaLounge are hooked up with digital audio.

Surround does not mean that every speaker plays audio at the same time.

LOL, I did at least know that much. I've just never owned anything that could actually play surround sound. I've just had an old 27" RCA TV with the audio dumped into and old Aiwa desktop stereo (you know, one of those things with the combo CD, dual tape deck, and radio?), and since it didn't have enough jacks to drive 4 speakers I spliced the wires so that the left output drove both the front and back left, while the right drove both the front and back right. Surround or no, it sounded better than just the tinny-sounding speakers on the TV. I'll certainly look into how to turn off the un-hooked-up speakers on my new receiver, though.

While on the subject of that old Aiwa unit, I notice that it had a a digital audio out for the CD. My new unit specifically says it does not, and you'll have to use analog out for recording. I'm guessing this is part of the anti-copying movement going on? Do higher-end units provide the ability to record digital out?

As for your video connundrum, if you are aware of the need to switch your display between s-video and composite video, then you can simply hook up the composite video cable from the receiver and do the switching manually.

Swithing the TV between S-Video and Composite is tedious. You have to go into the setup menu, go into the audio menu, and then the aux input menu, and then finally toggle between S-Video and Composite. I think the easiest thing is to just convert the one composite input, from the old VCR, to S-Video, using one of those converters you showed me, and be done with it.

You may also consider that you can add the composite video cable to your DVD player, and leave your TV on composite most of the time, but then switch it to s-video when you are around watching a DVD for slightly improved quality. Keep in mind that s-video is just a bit better that composite, and component video is better still, and everything you are dealing with right now is a long way from HDTV - and your receiver isn't equipped to handle HDTV at all.

Right - I considered that from the start, since that was the way the DVD was originally hooked up to the TV, and as all of my video devices (DVD, VCR, MediaLounge) have composite outputs. It would have been cheaper, too, since I already had all the necessary cables, but I had to go buy some more S-Video cables. But, since everything but the old VCR supported S-Video, and I had heard S-Video was better than composite, I decided to go S-Video.

This is a Denon 2807 receiver, it is what many woudl consider a pretty standard mid-level receiver. Not great, but a long way from the sub $300 price point entry level stuff. Mid-level pretty much runs from about $500 to about $1,500 or so. And while what you got wasn't the 'cheapest' that Best Buy had, it doesn't offer anything more really than what the chepest has except a few added inputs.

And that's why I chose it - it wasn't much more expensive than the lower-wattage unit plus it had a few more inputs. $500 was out of my price range. Cool looking back panel on that Denon, though.

 

[gorfle]

What do you think of the sound? How powerfull is the receiver? Have you had any issues with it shutting down at moderate volumes?

Today I turned up the volume to about 50db while listening to the radio. That's as loud as I got before the wife complained. It sounded fine to me. No shutting down. Of course, I only had it that loud for a couple of seconds.

Steve

 

[Seth=L]

Today I turned up the volume to about 50db while listening to the radio. That's as loud as I got before the wife complained. It sounded fine to me. No shutting down. Of course, I only had it that loud for a couple of seconds.

Steve

Mine was shutting off at around 40dB. I am pretty sure now that it was my error. I will probably get it again in a week or two and take the time to set it up proper and test it again and write another review, or just revise my current review of the receiver.

Thank you gorfle, you have been very helpful. I hope that you find a receiver that better suits your needs.

 

[erboothe1]

Insignia IS-HC040917

I recently purchased an Insignia IS-HC040917 ON ebay and am unable to turn it on and off with the manual control. I can turn it off and on with the remote and everything works fine with the remote. The standby light only lights when the manual off on switch is on. I have studied the manual and am still was unable to get it to work. From what I read, it appears to me that the standby light should be lit with the unit plugged in. Could somebody please help. If I am doing something wrong, I would be willing to look stupid to get it to work.

Ed Boothe
Brownsville, TX