Infinity Beta versus B&W 600 series

mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
sorry to flip flop guys
i was looking at the cnet reviews of the primus and found out it was a 2003 product. i only have enough money for 1 hit and i have to buy the best i can.
im gonna be using the amp money to buy a better set of speakers, and worry about the amp next time.

what do you guys say about the
BETA 40 vs. B&W 603
BETA 10 vs. B&W 600
BETA C250 vs. B&W LCR60


edit 601 to 600 (ty t2t)
 
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mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
oh, i also did listen to both of them ... but since there was at least a few hours between them, i couldnt really distinguish a difference
 
T2T

T2T

Senior Audioholic
Personally, if you're looking at the B&W 601, you should consider the Beta 20 to pair against it as it also features a 6.5" woofer and not a 5.25" woofer like the Beta 10 features.

This thread could get kind of ugly, though. Lots of room for different opinions. Personally, I love the Betas that I currently own. I think they are some great, neutral sounding speakers. However, B&W will have its fans, too, who will favor the sound.

If you can, see if you can purchase pairs from both manufacturers for use in your home. You could then return those that didn't make it through the comparison. Finally, one final word on the Beta CC-250 speaker - fugettaboutit. If you're looking at the Beta series, consider the CC-360 instead, which is head and shoulders above the CC-250.

Enjoy ! :)
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
t2t, unfortunately, product returns here dont work the same as there ... if you buy it, the only reason to return it is if its busted (factory busted)

also, the c360 isnt available here ... i wish! i also consider movie dialogue the MOST important consideration in a speaker setup.

what other speakers have you used? can you please rate them 1-10? (including your current beta?)
 
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mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
the area im using is 4.5 meters (15 feet) from the wall with the window up to the door jamb and 4 meters (13+feet) the previous wall up to the wall with the cartons

as you can see, the floors arent in yet ...
but i do have the 4 speaker cable wires protruding from the ceiling "audiopro" by sound tech US (i ended up buying this 1USD / meter cable) i think its gauge 14
 

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mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
bump please

edit:

you dont have to have heard both, if you've heard one of them, please comment :D
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
B&W Fan

It's late and I just got off work awhile ago so I'm hitting the sack after I cruise through a few more post. However, my initial setup was 603s, LCR60, and 600s. I'll be more than happy to post my impressions tomorrow.
Ciao
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
nibhaz said:
It's late and I just got off work awhile ago so I'm hitting the sack after I cruise through a few more post. However, my initial setup was 603s, LCR60, and 600s. I'll be more than happy to post my impressions tomorrow.
Ciao
thanks nibhaz,
also, why did you change to a 604? did you need more power (oomph)?
 
K

kevsam

Audiophyte
Hi Mike, I just upgrade my centre speaker from Mission 75c to the B&W LCR600 S3, and I'm having some problems with it, there is some distortion on certain dialogue that on my old Mission does not exists. I've changed to another LCR600 from the seller but the problem was still there. We tested the 2 LCR 600 at the shop with another amp (AVR7300) and it done it again.
Then we checked with a JBL centre thet he had at the shop and it worked fine. The salesman told me that maybe the B&W are too sensitive, but I rather have less sensitive speakers than the tweeter distortion.
I've even called the B&W technical support but he said that he has to be on site for problems like these, well that's impossible because I'm from Malta.

A film that does the distortion is The Pacifier at the middle of chapter 8 when Vin Diesel goes up the stairs and he begins to talk with the girl. I don't know if it will work fine with your amp but check before buying. Have you had any problems with yours nibhaz?

Bye
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
thanks for the heads up kevsam.
you got a mean setup there!
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
Here goes!

First of all let me state that I have not heard any of the upper tier Infinities in the last 5 or 6 years, and I'm not a big fan of the Primus series, but then again I’ve only heard them in the listening rooms of major retailers which are notorious for having poor setups acoustically. However, when I was younger I was a big fan of the upper level Infinities. My first set of speakers were EPI and all the speakers in my car are aftermarket Infinities. What I’m trying to say is that believe Harman International has a history of making good speakers and I imagine that the Betas and Alphas draw on that history.

As for the B&W 600 S3 line of speakers…well, personally I’m a fan obviously. I feel that they are fairly natural speaker with perhaps a slight emphasis on the midrange, in so much that the mids tend to be little bit forward but always clear and distinct. I find their imaging to be exceptional often presenting a sense of depth to the soundstage, but that really seems to be dependent on the source material being fed to them. Which is perhaps the main point, you feed them a crappy recording, and it will sound like crap, you send them a signal that was properly mastered and they sound phenomenal. An example would be track three of Coldplay’s Rush of Blood to the Head. It sounds as if Chris Martin is setting right in front you singing…it really sounds like he is right in front of you, it makes me feel kind of funny inside sometimes…lol. For me and my ears the B&Ws are what I prefer at this price point. However, at this price point there are ton of contenders which should be considered so you really need to do some listening to find out which speaker will give you the most bang for your buck.

I had the 603s for 28 days before I went to the 604s. The main reason being that I do a lot of 2.0 listening. The other reason is that bass management in universal player only allows the R/L channels to be set to large. I wanted a little more bass when I cranked up. The bass roll off of the 603s was very pleasing to the ear, but I just wanted a little more oomph as you put it. The second thing I was after was true 3 way design of the 604 and the in cabinet isolation of the midrange driver. The 604 defiantly have more bass, but better mids…sure, maybe, to close to call. Of course, if you’re going to be using a sub in conjunction with these speakers’ bass extension really becomes a mute point. Further thoughts of mine on these speakers can be found here. In that thread you will also find my thoughts on the LCR60.

As for the DM 600s, I’ve never used them for any other application other than as surrounds. In this application they perform well. I have no complaints to report.

The only reason I now have the LCR600 is marketing. With pink noise it does seem to be more timber matched with 604s; however in real world application I am unable to distinguish a significant difference from the LCR60…perhaps a little more fuller on the lower end.

Well, those are my thoughts. Hoped it helped. Here are some links to outside reviews of both series of speakers. Keep in mind the subjectiveness of such reviews. Let your ears be the final judge.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudspeakers/1104infinity/

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/805infinity/

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/infinity_beta50_betac360_betaes250_sw12.htm

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=427&page_number=1

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/speakersystems/903BW/index.html
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
kevsam said:
Hi Mike, I just upgrade my centre speaker from Mission 75c to the B&W LCR600 S3, and I'm having some problems with it, there is some distortion on certain dialogue that on my old Mission does not exists. I've changed to another LCR600 from the seller but the problem was still there. We tested the 2 LCR 600 at the shop with another amp (AVR7300) and it done it again.
Then we checked with a JBL centre thet he had at the shop and it worked fine. The salesman told me that maybe the B&W are too sensitive, but I rather have less sensitive speakers than the tweeter distortion.
I've even called the B&W technical support but he said that he has to be on site for problems like these, well that's impossible because I'm from Malta.

A film that does the distortion is The Pacifier at the middle of chapter 8 when Vin Diesel goes up the stairs and he begins to talk with the girl. I don't know if it will work fine with your amp but check before buying. Have you had any problems with yours nibhaz?

Bye
Personally I haven't had any problems with my LCR600 showing signs of distortion during HT playback. Then again my LCR600 sees more from HALO2 than it does from HT so perhaps I haven't put enough material through it to provide an accurate evaluation. Have you had any problems with mulitchannel music?

Sorry I'm not much help here. Maybe I'll go rent the DVD to see if I have similar results.
 
K

kevsam

Audiophyte
Thank you nibaz I would appreciate that. In multichannel music seems to be ok.

Nice review
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
thank you very much nibhaz, ill read the resources you posted ...
right now, im leaning towards the beta 40 because of the 603's "2 1/2" way speakers
although ill have a SW to back it up, i just feel like im being shortchanged with the number of drivers. ill be bringing my own CD this time to both of the stores.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
i realize this thread is highly relative to a person's ears ...
can you guys comment on the kevlar vs. cmmd technology?
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
kevsam said:
Thank you nibaz I would appreciate that. In multichannel music seems to be ok.

Nice review

I'll try to pick it up tomorrow and give it a listen.
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
mike c said:
thank you very much nibhaz, ill read the resources you posted ...
right now, im leaning towards the beta 40 because of the 603's "2 1/2" way speakers
although ill have a SW to back it up, i just feel like im being shortchanged with the number of drivers. ill be bringing my own CD this time to both of the stores.
I kind of felt that I was being short change by the 2 1/2 way design myself, but to be honest, I believe that it was merely a mental bias. I truly believe the 603 is a great speaker if fits your needs.

Bringing your own cds is crucial to evaluating speakers. You need to bring material that you are familiar with and covers a large range of your musical taste. I brought Jethro Tull, Tool, Eurythmics, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, Emerson Lake and Palmer, G’n R and The Crystal Method when evaluating speakers.
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
mike c said:
i realize this thread is highly relative to a person's ears ...
can you guys comment on the kevlar vs. cmmd technology?
I can’t comment on the cmmd technology, but if you really want to learn about B&W's use of Kevlar you should visit this site and request a DVD. The DVD is about the 800 series, but B&W is a trickle down company so the R&D that goes in to its upper tier speakers finds itself in the lower series. Keep in mind that this is marketing DVD, but man is it awesome! It will take about a week to arrive. If you can’t wait that long, and you ask real nice I might send you my copy. It will answer all of your questions about the use of Kevlar as a driver material.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
nibhaz, thanks for the offer, but its ok ...

i was just waiting for brand die hards to say kevlar this kevlar that; cmmd this cmmd that :) e.g. kevlar is bulletproof; ceramic is heat/cold proof

i dont have such a wide variety of music taste ... i like my r&b, rap, rock,some instrumental OST's, and some ballads
 
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