In store bargaining and markup?

bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Fwiw i was buying pre pros from dan when he left B&W thinking that my sound was sooo much better, knowing. As meat mentioned his speaker purchases, some products do not carry deep discounts. I still have MIT cables costing thousands, was i uneducated, yes. Profit still isnt a dirty word.
 
gixxerific

gixxerific

Audioholic
I didn't read every post but a lot of them are talking high markups. I just purchased some Focals that was 10% off what they said was retail. BUT what they said was retail was cheaper than I could find them oline that reveiws stated as retail. Plus the people there are most awesome.

I done good!!:D

Tomorow straight form work going to get them can't ****ing wait.:(:mad::(:eek::confused::mad::(

Dono

p.s. The link in my sig I where I bought from. It's a whole hell of a lot nicer than an internet page!
 
T

tom67

Full Audioholic
So who is getting all this wonderful service...

....from local stores? Places like Sound Advice (defunct Tweeter outlet) here in S. Florida along with most other B & M operations that I shopped rarely offered much service over the years. They were low pay retailers with high employee turnover and low motivation and I understood that...and thats why most people are so conditioned to value price over service.There are a few dealers selling limited lines still out there, but they account for a very small percent of audio gear that is sold. We might as well accept that the kind of old fashioned audio store is about as dead as doctor's house calls....thats just the way it is..Stores will live and die on line. Frankly, there is more accountability now more than ever due to sites like this. A consumer can research a product or seller on line much faster than they can do it going from store to store....let the B & M stores die and lets get on with it...
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I guess I'm in the middle on this. I don't care at all what the margin is on anything I buy. I look at the price and compare it to other options. If I think that a pair of B&Ws for $2000 from Mom & Pop Hi-fi are better than the latest and greatest ID speakers for $1000 then I'll buy the B&Ws. I will also try to get the best deal on them that I can, because I'd rather spend less.

I also have to say that some of highfigh's posts don't work for me. The sad story of the abused little guy is getting old. I've been treated poorly in more than a few shops. Treated well in others. The B&M owner or salesman has the distinct advantage of dealing with a customer in person, and of selling much more than just the lowest price. If you can't do that then don't complain.

ID has made this much more Darwinian in nature, and way better overall for the consumer imo. The ID companies who can deliver high value will prosper; those who can not do that will perish. Local B&Ms who specialized in arrogant bullying will be history. Those who can really help their customers will survive. The transitional period, that we are in now, is a bit messy, but I don't know how you can avoid that.
The little guy doesn't need to be abused but many are pretty helpless if they're undercapitalized. OTOH, someone who has a ton of money can have the fancy store, lots of lines and inventory but that doesn't guarantee success. There's guitar store a few miles from me and the owner is a transplant surgeon who loves guitars, so he opened up in the heart of a very nice area (lots of rich folks), has too many lines to really do any good with them and a nephew from Boston who would marry Slash if the opportunity came along. They're not doing very well and after only a couple of years, are moving. I didn't see where they're going but I know the rent will be less.

Anyway, All the money in the world won't make up for bad customer relations and general people skills. If a customer doesn't perceive high value in the goods and services offered, they won't buy. If they do, it's under protest, if you will. Many people really only equate lowered price with better value but the price is only part off it. If they don't feel good about the purchase, regardless of who they bought it from, it's not a satisfactory experience and something will always gnaw at them when they use whatever it is.

Some of the oldest stores around here are having problems with installation quality and at this point, their salespeople are just pushing boxes out the door. New managers who don't "get it" and don't make the sales department happy at one store and the other is just not very professional, although it did very well in the '80s.

I bet the posts you agree with least were the ones I did early this AM, which I can understand, since I wasn't in a great mood. That's also the reason I added "Flame On" at the end, because I assumed it wouldn't necessarily be a popular viewpoint.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You are correct! I know nothing about how much it costs to run a business. But is 1M an average sale figure for an year? Even by your own calculations at an average of 25% profit everyone got paid. The profit should be increased by moving more inventory. So instead of 1M if suppose the store sold 1.5M worth of goods the profit made increases.

I might be putting this in an exceeding simple fashion and the overall calculations may be more complex, but simple hiking the sale price can never form the basis of a great business, the customers need to be provided better quality at a reasonable cost. Otherwise, other people will step in who will solve this business problem and take up the market. It is happening in the US and around the world, the way the world is doing business is changing. The business establishments would need to change or perish.

As I mentioned above, the only way out of this is to change the way we do business, not to sound prudish, but the business world is increasing adhering to the Darwin's theory of the survival of the fittest
That's a very incomplete list of expenses, though. If that was complete, yes, everyone got paid but not very much. To own a $1M/yr store and only make $50K isn't worth the time and effort unless all tasks are delegated to the others. Also, while it seems logical to recommend moving more inventory, if the local market isn't able to support more volume, the only thing that will move more is lower prices. Dealers come and go- it's a fact and there's no reason for that to change but I would hate for all of the small, independent dealers to go away. If the only ones left were the big guys, it's not a good thing for the customers who were accustomed to seeing familiar faces, a cup of coffee and a friendly conversation, even when it was busy at the store. I remember when it was that way and I miss it. Competition was friendly and just about everyone at all of the stores knew each other and this isn't exactly Podunk, USA (although some would disagree).
 
gixxerific

gixxerific

Audioholic
The last couple posts are really hating on the small guy. That kinda makes me mad, not at you guy's, but the way society has moved on. I did audition at several high end shops. Music For Pleasure where I ended up was the real deal. The others were kinda there but not quite. The guy's at MFP have the same passion for music as I do. They know about how the industry is going cheap on quality but not on price. They are kind of people you don't want to leave the store because the conversation is too intriguing. That is was makes the purchase even sweeter. They will be there for a while.

If you can find a place like I did with something you REALLY like than you are a lucky mother ****er. To everyone looking or even thinking about looking, good luck.

Dono
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Highfigh, I know a viable repsonse will be, that I can get more personable attention at the local B&M, but I have found that with some research any answers I may need, i can easily get online. And with the net, i can get a more "truthful" answer than the local guy. In fact when I do go to the local store and have a question, i find 90% of the time, the salesmen going to the web to try and find me an answer (something I could easily do myself).
I have to agree that many in sales are completely clueless and unfortunately, it's not just on the retail end. I have stopped buying from some suppliers because when I would ask questions, the most common answer from the sales department was "I don't know". To make it worse, they never bothered to follow that with "but I'll find out". I was taught a long time ago that when I don't know an answer, it's not OK to just leave it at that, but to ALWAYS follow with "but I'll find out and get back to you" if the info wasn't available at that time. Best Buy fired all of their highest paid sales staff and told them that they could stay if they re-applied and started over on the pay scale. That's not a good way to retain people with any product knowledge but when people can get the info themselves, as you and others do, product knowledge isn't really the most important thing anymore. Some things don't really need to be auditioned but for the ones that do, a warehouse isn't exactly what the product designers had in mind.:D
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
PS. Im talking sound advice in the late 80 and 90s not when they were tweeterized.
 
V

viper359

Audiophyte
Never thought I was going to weigh in on this, but, for some reason, reading it all, I had too.

Grew up in a family business, and even ran it for almost 08 years. Managed to keep a Gross Operating Profit (GOP) of around 30% averaged over 05 year spans. This means, the actual markup we needed was about 45-50% depending on outside costs beyond budgeting control. For non business owners, keeping expenses around the 15-20% mark is HARD. None of this factors upgrades, repairs, expansion, etc. It only is the actual operating costs of keeping the doors open.

Which leads me to my biggest point. Being Canadian, we get ripped off from any online store in the United States. Usually, shipping charges, currency conversion, border charges, and other levies. Even though Canadians as a general population are buying more online then Americans, online retailers still try to screw them with these charges. Hence why Ebay is not selling near as much in Canada as it could.

Now, if only B&M stores would clue into this massive advantage they have in Canada. I walk through the door, you have me. You have the captive audience. All you have to do is give the customer service. Sadly, most destroy any chance they have of a sale right here. Study after study has found that if companies lose the salesman attitude and engage a hotel like customer service stance, they will profit. Hotels are quickly engaging this, eliminating up selling, revenue incentives etc, and empowering employees by rewarding them when their customer base notes and reports the amazing service. Some hotel chains saw revenues jump as high as 30% once they rolled out the full corporate wide platform and company mentality.

So, what is my point?? Sometimes you don't have to give a massive discount in terms of a financial number. If a person believes deep down they are getting a great product with great service at a decent price, they will buy. Everyone needs to lose this salesmen mentality. I just recently started getting ready for my purchase. Two local retailers made me feel like garbage because I was only looking to purchase two fronts which were under a thousand dollars. After this, I emailed another store about their product I was looking into, I explained what I was looking for, and explained what happened at the other stores I had been to, that I felt like I was wasting their time and I was just not confident to make the purchase. (Sidenote>>>If I found same product online at 50% of the cost, I might have just jumped and bought it, even though I was not sure it was what I was looking for, all because of two horrible store front experience))Someone from the store called me, told me to come in. I had just finished work, arrived, and he spent the next two hours explained all the speakers. I told him what I listen to, and what I would use them for..... this guy explained everything, and another guy helped him! I saw teamwork here. They knew what store I had come from, and told me straight that the other store was cheaper. I bought the speakers from the more expensive store no discount. I am going back this weekend to get the matching centre. I called the man who helped me buy the two speakers..... Got the hours he would be working, and l will be buying again. He has told me straight, he thinks he can get a better price for me on this centre speaker.

to conclude, even if I don't get a better deal, this man has given me great service. I felt the value of my purchase. When I have a problem, I have a great assurance it will be taken care of. Hell, I had the dumbest of question I needed answered, they helped me WITHOUT knowing that I had been a customer. Smaller businesses need to see customer service can make or break your business, not profits, not advertising, not foot traffic stats, how much product you can push!!! Without a customer, all the other bills etc are a moot point. Consumers need to get their heads out of their arses and start demanding more of this. Great stores, who carry great product lines only make products better, and in the end, the consumer better off.

PS>>> It's 5am, mind the horrid spelling and grammar. Also, the store I ended up buying from during the initial call to me, answered all my questions, and made me feel welcoming to their store. That whole section of my post could have been 200 lines long. I was just trying to show how their strive to reassure me and get me to give them a chance to fix their competitions mistakes.

Cheers
 
cerwinmad

cerwinmad

Full Audioholic
well i prefer to use a store, as in my latest drama with the cerwin sub i had. after three faliures, each time they were helpful, the salesman i had been dealing with got on to the rep and said i didnt want another sub in that model and too compensate me with something better. when all they offered was a b&w 8" (not suitable) or my old one, the salesman said the store was giving me a velodyne as they were upset at the problems i have had and wanted to make sure i was happy . as a result i will go there again. the sub they gave me was off there stock so they made no profit on it as far as i know.
 
rockybrown

rockybrown

Audiophyte
I agree 98% with highfigh's posts.
As a person that's sold ce products for a company that has both retail and online presence, I can sometimes get frustrated when customers feel that they have the right to demand a certain price. Consumers have the money, and it's their choice to buy a product. But when they say I'll offer you xxx for that, and it's 300 below our already low sale price, it's kind of comical. There's a lot of expenses for legit online dealers too like IT, marketing, and most namely shipping costs.
 
M

Mtn. Steel

Junior Audioholic
http://www.hometheatermag.com/completesystems/806system/index1.html

So today I drive 40 miles to the local B&M store to audition some Paradigms. I knew in advance that they did not have the 330 in stock, but I could hear the millenia 20`s LC andR. When I arrive, I tell the salesman that I was interested in Digms, that I was only there to listen. That I am 90% movie and 10% music. Room dimensions, receiver data and other equipment. He proceeds to sit me down facing away from the digms and tv and facing two very expensive speakers ($1250 each). Places a cd of music that was not my taste and left the room for about 5 minutes. He came back with a huge smile and said "well what`d ya think?" Of course my answer was "very nice, but not what I am after, can I listen to the Paradigms behind me?" "Well, yes, but only with the TV". "Ummm, that`s what I am looking for?!?!" Over to the theater and he puts the same music cd in the BR player! "How about a movie?" I ask. Well, okay. He puts in Stealth which is about 6-8 years old, but at least I get a sense. Love them! My next questions is, "bottom line, what will it cost to get 3-330`s and two ADP`s?" He quotes me $1400.00 (see link above) and is willing to give 10% off. That would be $1260.00 plus tax (@8%). If my math is correct, the MSRP would only come to $1118.00 and if I got the same 10% off it would be roughly a grand. Perhaps this is why Mom and Pops take a bad rap? Based upon this one dealer, I would buy the digms on the net in a heartbeat if I could. I may now switch my purchase to MA, by my local dealer who will give me 20% off 5 Radius (forget the model #) and save me about 300 bucks. Does anyone think that this is what Paradigm wants?.... in this economy????
 
M

Mtn. Steel

Junior Audioholic
Oh and I forgot. He mis-quoted frequency response, sensitivity, and power handling from his own line, which I busted him on. He proceeded to tell me that I could get a bigger discount if I also bought a receiver from him and then started slobbering all over Sony 6400 @$600.00. I asked what he thought of the Pioneer VSX-919ah. He looked it up on the net and began to trash it. It`s not 7.1...yes it is. It does not support the latest audio formats....yes it does. It must be under powered....is 100watss enough to drive 330`s? I know that it is an entry lever a/vr, but give me facts, not just crap that supports your products. I might overlook the price gouging if the guy was super knowlegable and educated me instead of vice versa.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
Mtn. Steel, your post brings up a great point. We go to B&M for experience and true information, hence why the "salesman" is in business. The sale of the product is just part of why the salesman is "earning" his profit. Today though, salesmen mislead the cosumer, or outright lie to him to get the sale. Yet get upset when a consumer does the reasearch on his own and buys online. If I can get truthful info online and buy it cheaper, what's my motivation to buy at a B&M?
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top