in need of a new DVD player

[supervij]

Well, my 5 year old DVD player seems to be winding down. Layer changes are taking longer and longer (a couple seconds may not seem like a long time, but when the movie freezes for that long, it's really REALLY irritating). And just yesterday, the player froze for about ten seconds at a point during the movie (fortunately during the credits), then jumped ahead ten seconds, and continued playing normally. I guess I really need a new DVD player.

After looking online at the four big stores in town (Toronto), seeing what's available, and checking out user reviews on ecoustics.com as well as various HT website reviews, I've narrowed my selection from fifty-one machines down to fourteen players:

1. Denon DVD-3910 $1499 CDN
2. Denon DVM-2815 $799 CDN
3. Panasonic DVD-S97 $350 CDN
4. Denon DVD-2910 $999 CDN
5. Sony DVP-NS975V $400 CDN
6. Denon DVD-1910 $349 CDN
7. Pioneer Elite DV59-AVi $1299 CDN
8. Samsung DVD-HD850 $120 CDN
9. Pioneer DV-578A $140 CDN
10. Philips DVP642 $100 CDN
11. Sony DVP-NS575PS $95 CDN
12. Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai $899 CDN
13. Panasonic DVD-S27 $120 CDN
14. Pioneer Elite DV-45A $499 CDN

It's a long list, I know. But I'm torn between buying a good, powerful player that'll last me forever, or getting a good but inexpensive one just in case I decide to purchase a Blu-Ray/HD player sometime down the road.

Anyone have any experience with these machines? and can give me some pointers/advice/words of warning? And which of these machines are most recommended?

Thanks so much for whatever help you can give!

cheers,
supervij

 

[markw]

Wow, >$100 to $1500. That's quite a price spread.

...and the owners all gave them high ratings?

Intellesting....velly intellesting...

 

[ctribble]

what about the Samsung HD841

What if you went with the Samsung HD841? It upconverts standard DVD to 720p or 1080i. Now this doesn't mean you will see an HD picture with this DVD player it just fills the void so to speak. But it doesn't look strecthed like some DVD players. Seeing that HD-DVDs are coming out late this year and early next year and then Blue-Ray not coming out until later after that.. I would go with a cheaper model that still performs o.k. I haven't had the least bit of trouble with this dvd player.
I bought it back in Sept'04 for under $200.00 dollars.
Good luck

C.T.
______________________
Denon 3805
Panasonic 42" Plasma TH-42PX25U/P
Samsung HD841 DVD player
JBL 250p subwoofer
M&S Waveguide 150w inwall Speakers
Universal Remote MX700

 

[Tempest]

I like my

Pioneer Elite DV-45A $499 CDN. It is a very nice player, but I do understand you wanting to wait for upcoming technology. If I was you, I would buy the cheapest thing you can find that doesn't totally suck and wait for the new stuff to come out.

 

[supervij]

Hey all,

MarkW, the price spread was intentional. If I do go for something temporary, it'll likely be something inexpensive, but if I go for something that I want to last much longer, it will have to be higher quality, with a corresponding increase in price. And not all the owners give their gear high marks! Reading through audioholics user reviews, I notice that people just love to complain. Any tiny little problem with their gear, and folks want to complain to someone. And that's one of the reasons I check 'em out.

Ctribble, I don't have access to a Samsung HD841; the only Samsungs at the big four stores here in Toronto are the Samsung DVD-HD850 and the DVD-P242. I assume the 850 is similar to the 841, so I'll consider it. Thanks for mentioning it.

Tempest: ahhh, the Elite DV-45A. I was seriously considering this one for a while. I've heard that it's picture playback is terrific, as is it's DVD-A playback, but its SACD leaves a bit to be desired. With the current prices of DVD-As and SACDs, I might forgo the universal player altogether though.

While I do want to keep upcoming technology in mind, I don't want to keep it from enjoying myself either. I mean, I probably won't puchase any first generation HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players just on principle. Wait for them to get the bugs out and so on. I imagine that by the time the second generation players are inexpensive enough (and we Canadians always seem to wind up paying far more than you lucky Americans, even with the currency exchange taken into account), three or four years will have passed. During that time, I can certainly enjoy having a powerful player like the Denon 2910.

I dunno. Still something I'm thinking about.

Any other opinions?

cheers,
supervij

 

[ptalar]

Do you have the capability for SACD? Do you play SACD? Do you play DVD-Audio? If not, then I would recommend the Denon 1910B. I have it and it is quite an improvement over my old DVD player. It sounds great. Has a Farjouda Video Chip with DCDI technology, and Burr Brown Audio Chips. A good basic player that is easy to use. Great picture and sound. Has a DVI connection for a high definition TV and is upscaling. These are the the things you really need for Home Theater.

If you are into SACD and DVD-Audio I would recommend the Samsung 941. It has a Farjouda chip I believe, DCDI technology and can play SACD and DVD-Audio. You will find as you look into DVD players that most only play SACD or DVD-Audio. There is some competition of competing formats going on. I hear good things about the Denon 2910. It handles DVD-Audio and SACD. It also plays all DVD formats: +/- R and RW. But you will pay a lot new. You can buy a factory second for a lot less.

Some talk of an impending format change to Blu-ray or HD DVD. That will be a long time from now because the first to come out will be expensive and will be bought by early adopters.

I bought the Denon 1910B because my receiver is older and does not have SACD capability - you need 6 audio connections. And I am mainly a home theater person. Regular CD's sound fine. SACD and DVD-Audio are marginal formats that have not been well accepted by the mass market. Probably because you have to have a home theater like system to really enjoy them. Most people can't afford that.

Phil

 

[supervij]

Hi ptalar. My receiver does support SACD and DVD-A, and I guess it would be pretty cool to have a universal player. The problem is these discs are very expensive, and most of my favourite artists don't have any albums on these formats. Picking up Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, the whole Peter Gabriel line, Oasis' What's the Story Morning Glory would be phenomenal to me. I've got one DVD-A, The Polyphonic Spree's We're Heavy Now, which I've been listening to in DTS, and it's absolutely magical. I'd love to hear it in full DVD-A some day. There are a few other DVD-As I'd love to hear, but so far this amounts to maybe less than twenty discs that I'm actually interested in. Is it wise to buy a player just to hear these twenty discs? I'm kinda grappling with that one. Are more artists going to avail themselves of these formats? It sorta seems no, so I start wondering what's the point?

I'd consider the Samsung 941 if I had it available in Toronto. But I don't, and I'm not buying these things off the internet. I'm just not going to. The Denon DVD1910, however, is one of the players I've been considering, until I realized that an important aspect to me is layer change time. My current player takes what feels like forever, even though it's probably not more than a couple of seconds. So it's become something I look for. The 1910 has a layer change of 2 seconds (according to hometheaterhifi.com), and as I watch a lot of movies, I think it may drive me insane. No offense to you, ptalar!

So in removing the players that have a layer change of over 1.5 seconds, and weeding out players that have reportedly more problems than they're worth (unfortunately, this includes the Samsung 841), I'm left with seven -- or rather six, cos I ain't paying three grand CND for the Denon DVD5900. They are, in order of preference, and in Canadian dollars:

Denon DVD3910 - 0.5 sec LC - $1499
Denon DVD2910 - 1.0 sec LC - $999
Sony DVP-NS975 - 0.75 sec. LC - $400
Panasonic DVDS97S - 1.5 sec. LC - $350
Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi - 1.5 sec LC - $1299
Samsung DVD-HD850 - 0.25 sec LC - $120

Another wide price range! I'm tempted to go with the Panasonic. Not sure why -- just seems like the best deal of the lot. Except for that darn 1.5 second layer change -- I just know that's gonna be real noticeable. Maybe the Sony; its layer change is just 0.75 seconds. The Denon 2910 cuts that layer change down to one second, but at more than twice the price. And the Samsung has a quarter of a second layer change! It's not a bad little player, but compared to the others? I dunno. Sigh. I hate these price versus performance decision moments. Any opinions/advice?

cheers,
supervij

PS: I completely acknowledge that weeding out players based on layer change time may be crazy, but I find it really brings me out of the movie experience -- just too jarring. I resign myself to being thought of as a dork in this regard.

 

[ptalar]

What is layer change? I have not heard that term.

I have a Yamaha RX-V2095 Home Theater Receiver that is absolutley superb and I cannot justify getting rid of it so I can use SACD and DVD-Audio. For HT it is great. As time goes on I will eventually replace the receiver with another flagship Yamaha and I still don't have a high definition TV. My Hitachi Ultravision I bought in 1996 is still going strong. I like to wait until they break before I get rid of them. As for the DVD player. I have a carousel DVD player and I did not like using it. My wife had a hard time with it. WAF is very important. The 1910 is simple and easy to use and set up.

Attached below is the Denon outlet for their B stock. I may move up to a 2910 or 3910 someday. I hear the sound quality for HT is even better. But the 1910 is a big improvement for now.

By the way these B stock Denon units carry the full factory warranty.

Phil

http://www.dakmart.com/website/Search.asp?keyword=Denon

 

[supervij]

Because most DVD's have two layers of information, there is a point during the disc at which the laser will need to re-focus between the layers. Depending on the player and the authoring of the DVD, this can make the picture and sound pause for a second before the procedure is complete. Good layer changes are usually situated in-between scenes in a film or at some other point where they are not noticed.

I've been noticing it big time lately. Of course, it's probably just cos my player's getting old and can't hack it anymore, but still.

I'm starting to think that SACDs and DVD-As are slightly overrated. I'm sure they sound incredible, but the cost of these discs is just too off-putting. Plus, my receiver doesn't have a DVI or HDMI connection, so that would mean six cables, and frankly, I've enough of a mess back behind there.

Like you, I intend to keep my equipment till it breaks down. I ain't made of money, so I can't just keep upgrading cos there's something better out there. My 27" CRT stays right where it is -- even if it is 480i. Sigh. THAT's the one that needs upgrading though. The picture is still bright and strong, but those lines! Ugh, who needs 'em?

Thanks for reminding me about B stock. I guess it is something I should consider. I'll take a look around.

In the meantime, anyone have any opinions/advice/tales of cautionary woe on my choices (see post #7)?

cheers,
supervij

 

[ptalar]

Yes. I know now what you are talking about when you talk about layer change. I notice it occasionally also. I thought it was just a dirty disc or a defect in the disc. Sometimes it seems as if it skipped a scene. I will pay attention to that more. Thanks for the education. It does bother me sometimes also.

Phil

 

[ptalar]

Have you seen the benchmark tests for Denon. The 2910 and 1910 score pretty close yet you will pay twice to three times as much for the 2910. I agree layer change is half for the 2910.

PT

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=15&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

 

[supervij]

I did see the benchmark tests. The 1910 scored very respectedly. I still think a two second layer change is unacceptable, and the benchmark agrees with me. Upon further reflection/research, I've narrowed my choices down to three:

Sony DVP-NS975V $400 CDN
Panasonic DVDS97S $350 CDN
Samsung DVD-HD850 $120 CDN

I removed the Denon from my list; I think it's just too pricey. A thousand bucks CDN for a DVD player?! Not for this kid. The Sony and the Panasonic are pretty much neck and neck in the benchmark tests. I noticed the Samsung has a layer change of only 0.25 seconds (!), and while it mustered a much lower score on those benchmark tests, the results from the pass/borderline/fail tests weren't that bad. Any video problems it might have probably wouldn't even be noticeable on my old TV. And at such a low price, I'm not going to feel bad about replacing it down the line when I buy a new TV. So I'm now throwing the Samsung into the mix.

I still welcome opinions/advice from anyone willing to offer them about these three machines. Thanks to anyone who can help!

cheers,
supervij

 

[dm_4u]

I did see the benchmark tests. The 1910 scored very respectedly. I still think a two second layer change is unacceptable, and the benchmark agrees with me. Upon further reflection/research, I've narrowed my choices down to three:

Sony DVP-NS975V $400 CDN
Panasonic DVDS97S $350 CDN
Samsung DVD-HD850 $120 CDN

I removed the Denon from my list; I think it's just too pricey. A thousand bucks CDN for a DVD player?! Not for this kid. The Sony and the Panasonic are pretty much neck and neck in the benchmark tests. I noticed the Samsung has a layer change of only 0.25 seconds (!), and while it mustered a much lower score on those benchmark tests, the results from the pass/borderline/fail tests weren't that bad. Any video problems it might have probably wouldn't even be noticeable on my old TV. And at such a low price, I'm not going to feel bad about replacing it down the line when I buy a new TV. So I'm now throwing the Samsung into the mix.

I still welcome opinions/advice from anyone willing to offer them about these three machines. Thanks to anyone who can help!

cheers,
supervij

If you wanna talk benchmark scores...the OPPO Digital DVD player scored the highest, (other than Denon's flagship) and only costs $199 us

Check out the specs...nothing comes close...

http://www.oppodigital.com/

 

[WndrBr3d]

I agree about the Oppo player.

I got mine last week and have been putting it through the ringer. I have it connected to my 55" Mitsu using the DVI cable and Optical audio going to my AVR7300.

The DVI processing power (Upscaling + FLI2310 Processor) avaliable on the Oppo player is un-beatable in its price range.

It can be had for only $199 on their website.

 

[SonyHawk5]

Supervij,

I've done quite alot of web searching lately and was looking for a new player myself. I ended up with the Denon 755S (comparable to the 1910 I've heard) and find it to be quite fine. I wanted HDMI but settled for the DVI to HDMI interface cable and the pic is very, very good. I do want SACD, but alas it was not to be on this player. Here is what I know about your list...

Sony DVP-NS975V has a slew of negative reviews and very few positive comments. Seems the damned thing consistently breaks down after around 1 month of play.

Panasonic DVDS97S - I have a friend who has one and loves it. I believe it has HDMI and DVI and he uses the DVI into the back of his HDTV.

If you intend to have SACD and/or DVD-Audio you'll still need 6 cables unless you have an IEEE 1394 unit and a/v receiver. DVI doesn't carry sound at all and HDMI doesn't (to my knowledge) carry the signal necessary for SACD or DVD-A. It will do surround sound, but not SACD or DVD-Audio.

Good luck.

 

[supervij]

Hi dm_4u and WndrBr3d. Yeah, I noticed the Oppo straight off. I also noticed that its component connections don't support progressive playback, only 480i, which is fine, since I have a five year old 480i CRT with a beautiful picture and no plans to replace it until I absolutely have to. If I can find the player somewhere here in Toronto, you'd better believe I'll be picking it up. But if not, I won't be ordering it online. I just don't like the idea of doing it. None of the big electronics stores here in Toronto carry it. I'm hoping to go to some of the smaller stores and check it out. I'm just ticked off that my new Yamaha receiver doesn't support DVI or HDMI, so when I upgrade my TV sometime down the road to an HDTV, I'll have to buy a new receiver as well. Sigh. Such is life.

Hi SonyHawk5. I noticed the same thing about the Sony. I've already scratched it off my list. The Panasonic and the Samsung are my final two choices. I'll be using components for whichever one I get, but I've heard that the Panasonic is just fine for components, almost as good as with DVI. It's supposed to be brilliant for upscaling, but obviously that's not an issue for me. I can't seem to find too many user reviews on the Samsung though. My local Future Shop carries both. Hopefully this week I'll get a chance to go down there and compare them both. Specs alone, they seem pretty much the same, but we'll see.

SACD and DVD-A, while they'd be lovely to have, are not neccessities for me. I've got one DVD-A to which I listen in DTS, but I only got it cos it was used and thus very cheap. Most SACDs and DVD-As I've seen are far too expensive for my tastes. If the player I ultimately choose does have SACD/DVD-A capability, great, but otherwise, no biggie.

And not that I'm a smarty-pants, but HDMI does carry SACD/DVD-A signals. It says so on the faq page of www.hdmi.org

Thanks for the comments, guys. But I still seem to be torn between two players. Sigh. I hate these decisions.

cheers,
supervij

 

[SonyHawk5]

Hi Supervij --

Thanks for the link. Good info to know. I couldn't confirm that HDMI currently supports SACD though. Also not wanting to be Mr. Smarty-Pants...here is a cut-n-paste from the site...

Will HDMI support SACD?The HDMI Founders designed the HDMI specification to be dynamic. HDMI has plenty of extra bandwidth to accommodate future audio and video requirements, and the Founders are committed to evaluating and updating the specification to help accommodate new audio and video formats that may be introduced in the foreseeable future. As an example, since the introduction of the initial HDMI 1.0 specification, the HDMI 1.1 specification supporting DVD-Audio has already been introduced. The HDMI Founders do not comment on future revisions of the spec, however there is no technical reason why HDMI could not support SACD.

I suppose that in order to utilize the SACD audio technology once it is enabled we'd need an HDMI A/V receiver (are these even available? if so, they must be very expensive) and an HDMI/SACD/DVD-A player (not to mention TV if wished). When I do find an SACD player (see below) I'm stuck with the 6-cable-analog method. I've recently invested nearly $900 US in a Yamaha S2500 receiver and it does not have an HDMI connection.

I too am unsure about whether or not SACD is worth the cost. I did buy John Coltrane's "Blue Train" in SACD/CD format a few weeks ago. It was only around $4 US more than the standard CD. To me it sounds pretty good in simulated 5.1. I'm looking for a decent SACD player to perform my comparison test as my Denon 755S doesn't have SACD or DVD-A capability.

I have been able to confirm that there are vast differences in an original recording on CD and a compressed iPod version. iPod fine for continuous play during a party, but if you are critically listening then the original recording is the only way to go. I expect that the difference between std CD and SACD could be just as vast, but only a test will confirm same for me.

Thanks again, SH5

 

[Logman]

What if you went with the Samsung HD841? It upconverts standard DVD to 720p or 1080i. Now this doesn't mean you will see an HD picture with this DVD player it just fills the void so to speak. But it doesn't look strecthed like some DVD players. Seeing that HD-DVDs are coming out late this year and early next year and then Blue-Ray not coming out until later after that.. I would go with a cheaper model that still performs o.k. I haven't had the least bit of trouble with this dvd player.
I bought it back in Sept'04 for under $200.00 dollars.
Good luck

C.T.
______________________
Denon 3805
Panasonic 42" Plasma TH-42PX25U/P
Samsung HD841 DVD player
JBL 250p subwoofer
M&S Waveguide 150w inwall Speakers
Universal Remote MX700

I have this model and it's pretty sweet. Make sure your cables and TV inputs are set properly - as it really makes a big difference in audio and video quality. I had it set up wrong and a friend fixed it for me - big difference!

 

[revjb]

Samsung HD841 vs. Oppo DV971H

I will be posting on my experiences with both soon enough but let me just drop a few nuggets from having both players.

The HD841 is a grand bargain if you compare the list of features to the price; I've seen this player at under $100 at Best Buy and Circuit City (most likely due to many returns and manufacturing problems).

The positives:
1. It plays most DVD formats (handles most DVD-Rs without too many issues)
2. has DVI out.
3. plays SACD discs
4. can switch viewing format (4:3 -- 16:9) with minimal hassle (remote button push)

The negatives:
1. loses connection settings randomly (esp. for DVI out)
2. skips dirty discs like crazy
3. insane amount of black crunch (no gradation of grayscale)
4. pixel cropping
5. deinterlacing isn't great
6. it NEEDS the firmware upgrade to autodetect DVI connection and fix some playback issues
7. SACD playback isn't so stellar
8. Samsung's support for this player is sorely lacking

But then again, I repeat -- this player can be had for under $100 now. It's a great throwaway player + SACD playback.

Opposed to this is the Oppo DV971H for a hundred bucks more. It doesn't play SACD but it plays ALL video formats (including divX / MPEG-4, PAL / NTSC, region free) with aplomb.

The positives:
1. great playback
2. able to control contrast/gamma/hue/saturation
3. has the Genesis FLI 2310
4. region free
5. handles both PAL / NTSC outputs
6. second only to the Denon 5910 in terms of performance (from hometheaterhifi.com)

The negatives:
1. the player and remote are very ugly (subjective opinion)
2. tray is esp. flimsy
3. menu uses Courier font.
4. image sharpening is harsh at any level other than low
5. web purchase only
6. subtitles get vertically compressed when the player is set to 4:3 (for 4:3 discs)

Even at $100 more than the HD841 I consider the Oppo a bargain. Granted I have not had the Oppo as long as I've had the Samsung HD841 but I've not experienced any of the headaches or quirks of the Samsung. Other Oppo users -- what have you experienced?


cheers,

J

 

[WooHoo]

But I'm torn between buying a good, powerful player that'll last me forever...........

A real knee slapper!! A technological piece of equipment that will last forever. Stop it, you're killing me!!!