Impedance speaker to AVR

[sam_s]

New to posting but been enjoying reading and benefiting from others ~ 5 years (many of your posts help solve past AV issues...thanks.) Searched various threads could not find similar so decided start new thread...sorry if missed an existing one. Possible need replace 2007 Denon AVR-1906 (impedance 4 to 8 ohms per manual) &/or DVD-2910 which no longer play just SACD surround layer signal from left surround speaker…completed all external setup & external tests could find (Denon, other sites), no luck. Given where live, no local repair & ~ $240 pack+S/H to get to bench then ? diagnose & especially find parts. Purchased used "like new" 1906 EBay but arrived damaged poor pack, all could do to get $ back. So, thinking to purchase AVR Sony Str-DH 790 (impedance rated 6 to 16 ohms, from Sony manual+Chat) pair with Sony UBP-x800m2 to play sound out of existing Definitive Technology ProCinema 60 5.1 System (impedance rated 4 to 8 ohms per manual). Still await DT response (little disappointed). DTs old but still sound great. Budget low # reasons so hope avoid purchase new speakers. Sony Chat says will burn up receiver, not sure if able to change AVR impedance (I doubt), and to buy new speakers MUST have ohm rating 6 to 16 (search but find very few). Found this Sony Tech Article at: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00031883 . Sony Chat said this not entirely accurate & stood by earlier 3 problems listed. Know impedance of speaker need to be =/> AVR, but do not have knowledge for potential problems when have this great of impedance range difference. Do not play loud. What are your thoughts on using the DTs hooked to the Sony AVR?

 

[dlaloum]

Why not get an external power amp to drive your "difficult speakers" and use the AVR to drive surrounds and heights?

Just make sure the AVR you are looking at has a set of Pre-Out's...

I purchased a set of used Crown XLS2500's about 10 years ago for US$250.... they can drive up to 1200W into 2ohm (let alone mere 6ohm!).... in that XLS drivecore family you can go with the more economical models down to the XLS1500 (or later XLS1502) - but don't drop down to the XLS1000/1002 as the sound quality drops off on the bottom model.

They are readily available used, and are popular with garage bads and PA installations - so look in those forums to find good condition used ones.

I purchased an Integra DRX 3.4 - which was demonstrably inadequate at driving my speakers (which drop down to 1.6ohm) - but I did so knowing it had a full set of pre-outs, and I had some very beefy power amps I can pair it with - the result has been excellent.

Typically surround and height speakers are much easier to drive, and therefore you can reserve the internal amps for those.... but give your Front L/R the benefit of a beefy power amp

 

[PENG]

New to posting but been enjoying reading and benefiting from others ~ 5 years (many of your posts help solve past AV issues...thanks.) Searched various threads could not find similar so decided start new thread...sorry if missed an existing one. Possible need replace 2007 Denon AVR-1906 (impedance 4 to 8 ohms per manual) &/or DVD-2910 which no longer play just SACD surround layer signal from left surround speaker…completed all external setup & external tests could find (Denon, other sites), no luck. Given where live, no local repair & ~ $240 pack+S/H to get to bench then ? diagnose & especially find parts. Purchased used "like new" 1906 EBay but arrived damaged poor pack, all could do to get $ back. So, thinking to purchase AVR Sony Str-DH 790 (impedance rated 6 to 16 ohms, from Sony manual+Chat) pair with Sony UBP-x800m2 to play sound out of existing Definitive Technology ProCinema 60 5.1 System (impedance rated 4 to 8 ohms per manual). Still await DT response (little disappointed). DTs old but still sound great. Budget low # reasons so hope avoid purchase new speakers. Sony Chat says will burn up receiver, not sure if able to change AVR impedance (I doubt), and to buy new speakers MUST have ohm rating 6 to 16 (search but find very few). Found this Sony Tech Article at: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00031883 . Sony Chat said this not entirely accurate & stood by earlier 3 problems listed. Know impedance of speaker need to be =/> AVR, but do not have knowledge for potential problems when have this great of impedance range difference. Do not play loud. What are your thoughts on using the DTs hooked to the Sony AVR?

I googled the Procinema 60 and the specs seem say they are 8 ohms nominal. Regardless, even if they are 4 ohms, it won't burnt your AVR as long as you don't crank the volume pass the point you can hear distortions. The impedance setting on AVRs simply limit the output, so you can do the same by not turning the volume too high. Those support chat people are not very technical so they typically just give you safe generic answers so you can't complain if anything happens.

 

[sam_s]

Why not get an external power amp to drive your "difficult speakers" and use the AVR to drive surrounds and heights?

Just make sure the AVR you are looking at has a set of Pre-Out's...

I purchased a set of used Crown XLS2500's about 10 years ago for US$250.... they can drive up to 1200W into 2ohm (let alone mere 6ohm!).... in that XLS drivecore family you can go with the more economical models down to the XLS1500 (or later XLS1502) - but don't drop down to the XLS1000/1002 as the sound quality drops off on the bottom model.

They are readily available used, and are popular with garage bads and PA installations - so look in those forums to find good condition used ones.

I purchased an Integra DRX 3.4 - which was demonstrably inadequate at driving my speakers (which drop down to 1.6ohm) - but I did so knowing it had a full set of pre-outs, and I had some very beefy power amps I can pair it with - the result has been excellent.

Typically surround and height speakers are much easier to drive, and therefore you can reserve the internal amps for those.... but give your Front L/R the benefit of a beefy power amp

dlaloum,
Thanks for the response. Agree speakers are "very difficult" but marriage are compromises... + no dedicated music room. The DT system meets what I call wife decor factor requirements while giving me good enough sounds (66 yr old ears).

You have very good idea...two minds better than one, three even better and after that things go downhill fast. Been so tuned in to new equipment with built in pre amp totally forgot about external. Do not have heights, so if go your route even easier (setup and $). Your idea is ON option list.

However, there might be life for Denon's. Out of blue previous, semi retired owner (70 yrs. experience) of remaining local repair facility (new owner only work equip. 7 years or newer) called with offer put me in 2 1/2-4 week diagnose & if possible repair window. Only takes a few, select jobs. Offer diagnose AVR (0 to $30 charge) along confirm not DVD (no charge). Original post did mention Denon's not play SACD out of left surround. Did not mention Denon's still plays perfect out of left surround when run test tones [AVR/DVD], DVD A/V surround signal (all Dolby & DTS modes), & audio disc surround (again all Dobly & DTS modes). All after both full factory default reset. Test he suggest switch ext in rca cable for R/L surrounds & if dead moves right surround might be problem with capacitor, resistor or something within internal pre-amp. Latter ?'s find parts. Think for $30 (+ some time) will see if can bring Denon's full capability back (enjoy all layers SACD collection). If not look to my other options including yours. sam_s

 

[lovinthehd]

Might review these articles, among others, here on Audioholics

Loudspeaker Power Ratings: What's the Deal Part I?

This article explains loudspeaker power handling and how manufacturers often rate how much power a speaker is rated to handle.

www.audioholics.com

Loudspeaker Sensitivity & Impedance Explained

The focus of this article is on loudspeaker sensitivity and impedance. Loudspeaker manufacturers sometimes exaggerate the specifications of their products to make them look better than reality.

www.audioholics.com

The Truth About Matching Amplifier Power to Loudspeakers

Do you need to match amplifier power to your loudspeakers? Clipping, impedance, heat, sensitivity, blown drivers, and other mysteries are explored in this article.

www.audioholics.com

 

[sam_s]

I googled the Procinema 60 and the specs seem say they are 8 ohms nominal. Regardless, even if they are 4 ohms, it won't burnt your AVR as long as you don't crank the volume pass the point you can hear distortions. The impedance setting on AVRs simply limit the output, so you can do the same by not turning the volume too high. Those support chat people are not very technical so they typically just give you safe generic answers so you can't complain if anything happens.

PENG,
Thanks for response. DT CServ finally called back this am. Agreed with Sony, my current DT 5.1 speak sys not work with new Sony AVR (+B-R) considering. Also would not give reason why or provide me with specific speak sys ohm rating (understand varies with freq but what I have seen many mfgs provide specific number). Even more disappointed DT. I thought if keep vol low (as typically do) then should be OK. Just wanted someone with more knowledge to confirm my limited knowledge. However, since post, the Denon's might live on so I am smaller part our throw away society + have my SACD surround back. If have time read last paragraph my reply to dlaloum response. sam_s

 

[sam_s]

Might review these articles, among others, here on Audioholics

Loudspeaker Power Ratings: What's the Deal Part I?

This article explains loudspeaker power handling and how manufacturers often rate how much power a speaker is rated to handle.

www.audioholics.com

Loudspeaker Sensitivity & Impedance Explained

The focus of this article is on loudspeaker sensitivity and impedance. Loudspeaker manufacturers sometimes exaggerate the specifications of their products to make them look better than reality.

www.audioholics.com

The Truth About Matching Amplifier Power to Loudspeakers

Do you need to match amplifier power to your loudspeakers? Clipping, impedance, heat, sensitivity, blown drivers, and other mysteries are explored in this article.

www.audioholics.com

lovinthehd,
Thanks for response. I realized during my search might have suffered "senior moment" and been only "Beginners and Audiophytes" Forum. Nothing like these articles list. After your response did "All Forum" search and these along many others list. Appreciate the time you took send me this list. Will read and become more educated this subject so if have to utilize buy new option can make proper, safe selection. sam_s

 

[PENG]

PENG,
Thanks for response. DT CServ finally called back this am. Agreed with Sony, my current DT 5.1 speak sys not work with new Sony AVR (+B-R) considering. Also would not give reason why or provide me with specific speak sys ohm rating (understand varies with freq but what I have seen many mfgs provide specific number). Even more disappointed DT. I thought if keep vol low (as typically do) then should be OK. Just wanted someone with more knowledge to confirm my limited knowledge. However, since post, the Denon's might live on so I am smaller part our throw away society have my SACD surround. If have time read last paragraph my reply to dlaloum response. sam_s

They are not very knowledgeable technically speaking, unless you get to talk to their designers/engineers, but you usually cannot get pass their first line customer support people. Any competent electrical engineer will tell you just about (not all) AVRs can power 4 ohm speaker as long as you don't push them beyond their voltage and current limit. Of course, it is better to drive 4 ohm speakers with amplifiers that are rated for 4 ohm load but again it does not mean your tiny DT speakers are going to blow up a Sony AVR such as the 790, that could have been rated for 50 W into 4 ohms easily. But you don't want to spend the money, then I am saying the Sony DH590 can do the job if depending on how loud you listen and how far you sit from the speakers. Relatively low cost AVRs that offers pre outs so you can add external amps are the likes of the following:

- Denon AVR-X3700H (previous year model, so price should be better than the current AVR-X3800H
- Yamaha

Have you use an online calculator to find out what your actual amp power need is?
Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)

Is this what you have:
Amazon.com: ProCinema 60 - Definitive Technology ProCinema 600 5.1 Speaker System (Set of S - 3477 : Electronics
Amazon.com: YAMAHA RX-A4A AVENTAGE 7.1-Channel AV Receiver with MusicCast : Electronics

Unless you go for the used, or refurbished units, just about any AVRs that offers at least 7.2 preamp outputs will cost >$1,000.

 

[j_garcia]

You are very much overthinking this. Most home speakers are 8 ohms nominal.

The entire procinema line are smaller micro or bookshelf models. None of them should be difficult to drive speakers and the vast majority receivers will work.

 

[PENG]

You are very much overthinking this. Most home speakers are 8 ohms nominal.

The entire procinema line are smaller micro or bookshelf models. None of them should be difficult to drive speakers and the vast majority receivers will work.

He did the "right" thing by consulting the manufacturers customer support, but unfortunately those people would just give answers based on their superficial understanding of the specs. At least our OP came to the right place and ask for more help. Now he has to choose to believe us, or the customer support people (who are supposed to knwo more, but...)

 

[highfigh]

He did the "right" thing by consulting the manufacturers customer support, but unfortunately those people would just give answers based on their superficial understanding of the specs. At least our OP came to the right place and ask for more help. Now he has to choose to believe us, or the customer support people (who are supposed to knwo more, but...)

Customer and tech support have become almost useless in many cases- thanks, COVID layoffs!

CS are there for "enhancing the customer experience", not answering technical questions, more than ever. Tech support used to be a good place for consumers to call for info, but that ship sailed. Hell, even the dealer support has turned to crap. It's unfortunate- in the past, it was possible to talk with the same people over a span of years but now, it's new people who were hired because they had a pulse if they're on the same continent as the caller or they're offshore and that's not effing working.