If you had 5k-7k$……

MalVeauX

MalVeauX

Senior Audioholic
Hi,

What's the distance from your speakers to your listening position and what is the max SPL you tolerate and/or want at that listening position?

Very best,
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
In that case, the object based algorithm may not be as effective as they claimed, or its your set up not being optimum for the immersive sound encoding, or the sound engineers did a poor job that that movie mix, or all of the above??
It depends on the movies. Some movies (like Edge of Tomorrow, Moonfall 2022, The Batman 2022) have absolutely awesome reference quality ATMOS sound effects.

It varies even in the same movie. For "Prey 2022", there are parts where the ATMOS sounds great. It just varies from scene to scene.

It appears to be difficult to get every scene to sound awesome and so there will be scenes where all the speakers may be blasting away. This is probably due to laziness on the sound mixing.

Or maybe they did intend on blasting away on all the speakers on some scenes for more "IMMERSIVE" sound. :D
 
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witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Full Audioholic
Don't you find it odd that a lot of those 13 or more channel lovers could actually hear much better sound quality between their AV processors:D I can never imagine being able to resolve such differences when blasted with so many speakers at the same time when watching the Jurassic, or Justice league kind of movies. Wish I was more prone to Placebo as life would have been more colorful..
How many speakers are the limit for you? It seems the guys at Abbey Road really like having 13 or more channels when they remixed Pink Floyd into immersive audio:
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
How many speakers are the limit for you? It seems the guys at Abbey Road really like having 13 or more channels when they remixed Pink Floyd into immersive audio:
I have only 11 speakers, and 5 subwoofers for my 7.1.4 setup. When I went from 7.1 to 7.1.4 I did not feel it was a major gain in enjoyment but I do prefer 7.1.4. I use cheap Polk speakers for the .4, if I invested in better speakers and/or have higher ceiling I might have noticed a bigger difference though.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
How many speakers are the limit for you? It seems the guys at Abbey Road really like having 13 or more channels when they remixed Pink Floyd into immersive audio:
Just a good pair of headphones is all you need for anything Pink Floyd! Oh and a couple of good tokes from some good reefer! That's how I was introduce the Pink Floyd back in the day haha! :D "is there anybody in there". "Comfortably numb" oh yeah! :)
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
I have only 11 speakers, and 5 subwoofers for my 7.1.4 setup. When I went from 7.1 to 7.1.4 I did not feel it was a major gain in enjoyment but I do prefer 7.1.4. I use cheap Polk speakers for the .4, if I invested in better speakers and/or have higher ceiling I might have noticed a bigger difference though.
@PENG Andrew got 10 subs! You two are mad scientist I tell you! :D;)
 
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Full Audioholic
I have only 11 speakers, and 5 subwoofers for my 7.1.4 setup. When I went from 7.1 to 7.1.4 I did not feel it was a major gain in enjoyment but I do prefer 7.1.4. I use cheap Polk speakers for the .4, if I invested in better speakers and/or have higher ceiling I might have noticed a bigger difference though.
"only" 11 speakers :). I think the experience of the height channels are very content dependent. When I switch off all my bed channels and listen to an atmos mix only through height channels it is very revealing, even in crash and bang action scenes, how little content comes through those speakers in the majority of mixes.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I have only 11 speakers, and 5 subwoofers for my 7.1.4 setup. When I went from 7.1 to 7.1.4 I did not feel it was a major gain in enjoyment but I do prefer 7.1.4. I use cheap Polk speakers for the .4, if I invested in better speakers and/or have higher ceiling I might have noticed a bigger difference though.
You have more speakers than I do. :D

My 26' x 22' x 14' HT room only has 5.1.4. :D

I bet when @Replicant 7 buys a new house, he'll probably have more speakers than I do also, probably 7.1.4. :D
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
You have more speakers than I do. :D

My 26' x 22' x 14' HT room only has 5.1.4. :D

I bet when @Replicant 7 buys a new house, he'll probably have more speakers than I do also, probably 7.1.4. :D
Oh yeah!! Will be more than one sub I can promise you that. The only reason I don't have two is because I'd get evicted from the apartment I'm in. There will be two Monolith's THX-M12-VS in my setup!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Oh yeah!! Will be more than one sub I can promise you that. The only reason I don't have two is because I'd get evicted from the apartment I'm in. There will be two Monolith's THX-M12-VS in my setup!
You’re right, I should said “7.2.4”. :D

Sometimes I just say “.1” to designate the “LFE“, which could be 2 or more subs.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
You’re right, I should said “7.2.4”. :D

Sometimes I just say “.1” to designate the “LFE“, which could be 2 or more subs.
I always do that too. Just to avoid the inevitable. “Hey, I have 7.1.4”. Log, but how many subs do you have?” Lol. 7.3.4 just makes it simpler.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You’re right, I should said “7.2.4”. :D

Sometimes I just say “.1” to designate the “LFE“, which could be 2 or more subs.
Good for you! As you know, 7.1.4 with 10 subs is the right way, 7.10.4 might have been the popular way. Same thing with 100 W average is the right way, but 100 W rms might have been the popular way. Right is right, or correct, popular could be right or wrong.:)
 
M

mx416

Audioholic
Hi,

What's the distance from your speakers to your listening position and what is the max SPL you tolerate and/or want at that listening position?

Very best,
13’-14’ from main speakers. Room is 25’ x25’ x 10’. With a 6’ wide opening to a hallway.

For SPL i am trying to clean up the loudest part. As corrected by audyssey -10 to 0. it seems noticible during 2 channel play back, but as some have mentioned it very well could be just the limits of the SVS towers.

It seems very noticeable during high demand parts of movies at -10 to 0 playing 5.1 that the fronts just loose their clarity.
 
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MalVeauX

MalVeauX

Senior Audioholic
Hi,

$5~7k would be better spent on better speakers, than simply more source equipment. All speakers have a SPL ceiling where they begin to distort after that point. Speakers made to be very loud do this best. High quality speakers do not always get designed to get loud. So you have to keep that in mind.

I asked about the distance because 14 feet of distance with 86db sensitive speakers (SVS Ultra Books) will hit 83.4db for just 10 watts (that's ignoring the room, 1 speaker, so they would be louder in reality in a room with 2 speakers and a boundary near by); and 93.4db for 100 watts. 99db at 400 watts. There's just no point trying to get these things to 105db with their low sensitivity. They're not meant for long distance high SPL. Even if you were using the SVS Ultra Towers at 88db sensitivity, at 14 feet, they're just going to get 2db more than the books. In a room, they will be louder of course. 100 watts gets you 95.4db. 200 watts gets you 98.4db.

So if your goal is truly to get higher SPL and dynamic range at that high SPL, like 95db and higher, or up to 105db THX reference, it's not going to come from the Ultras from SVS. You won't get there even with $7k source gear. They're just not meant to hit 105db at 14 feet with no distortion.

You'd be better off getting high sensitivity speakers, like Power Sound Audio or RTJ Audio, etc.

Very best,
 
M

mx416

Audioholic
Hi,

$5~7k would be better spent on better speakers, than simply more source equipment. All speakers have a SPL ceiling where they begin to distort after that point. Speakers made to be very loud do this best. High quality speakers do not always get designed to get loud. So you have to keep that in mind.

I asked about the distance because 14 feet of distance with 86db sensitive speakers (SVS Ultra Books) will hit 83.4db for just 10 watts (that's ignoring the room, 1 speaker, so they would be louder in reality in a room with 2 speakers and a boundary near by); and 93.4db for 100 watts. 99db at 400 watts. There's just no point trying to get these things to 105db with their low sensitivity. They're not meant for long distance high SPL. Even if you were using the SVS Ultra Towers at 88db sensitivity, at 14 feet, they're just going to get 2db more than the books. In a room, they will be louder of course. 100 watts gets you 95.4db. 200 watts gets you 98.4db.

So if your goal is truly to get higher SPL and dynamic range at that high SPL, like 95db and higher, or up to 105db THX reference, it's not going to come from the Ultras from SVS. You won't get there even with $7k source gear. They're just not meant to hit 105db at 14 feet with no distortion.

You'd be better off getting high sensitivity speakers, like Power Sound Audio or RTJ Audio, etc.

Very best,
Thank you for the respons. Just to clarify I do have the towers. But, as you mentioned as well as other on here i am probably asking to much from them.

Thanks again.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
But, as you mentioned as well as other on here i am probably asking to much from them.

Thanks again.
It seems very noticeable during high demand parts of movies at -10 to 0 playing 5.1 that the fronts just loose their clarity.
It only takes a couple minutes to use an online calculator to find out if you are asking too much of the amp, or the speakers. Have you done it yet?

With volume at 0, it is quite possible that your AVR would be clipping during the high peaks in some movies, but again the spl calculators can confirm that.

The following have been linked on AH many times:

Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)
Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers

If you don't want to be bother with calculations, then just grab a power amp that is rated 200 W/300 W 8/4 ohms with gain >= 28 dB and THD+N < -80 dB (or 0.01%) 20-20,000 Hz from 100 mW to rated output. Then you will know if not having enough juice for the Ultra towers is the root cause, or not.
 
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