I Thought 7.1 Receiver Plays Music ?

J

JAMS

Junior Audioholic
Well i found out just like many folks,a ht receiver does movie dvd surround just great,subs get firing bombs when called on,all the effects are truly amazing!
Trouble for most avr owners comes playing a cd in the dvd player,it plays nice at low volume and even eq set, but upon cutting the volume up some it sounds a little irratating and adding a little more volume its worse,jez whats wrong it just doesnt sound as good as it should?
Ive heard the term digital bite and that relates too what ive experenced with my thx certified 7.1 whiz box!

I have boxed up my $499.99 thx unit and now play movies through a avr 7.2 unit built too play music first philosophy,it does play awesome with out that awful irratating bite on cd playback and the bass resolution is beyond anything anywhere ive ever heard and im over 50yrs old !
I didnt know that my subs could sound like they do now!
I just couldnt imagine it because ive never heard notes that clearly defined and warm but so musically refined!
I was used too a ht avr that like most just works well on dolby or dts refined surround formats!
Yes they do surround formats nicely.
But if your a music lover be warned,a high percentage of ht avr out there really fall flat on there face playing a cd even with a surround format cut on during playback,except at real low volume!
Ive found this out the hard way,and its my opinion the digital music that should sound great,doesnt and i wish i knew why,its ok but too some people but ive heard it as it should sound now and I felt compelled to warn music lovers there are ht avr units that do music very well! imo y.t. JAMS
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
So, I guess that the NAD T 765 does Music right by you then?
I would hope so, for $2,300.

Bob
 
J

JAMS

Junior Audioholic
Yes it plays music

BOB/i just didnt understand a ht receiver is just suited for that and playing cd music from a dvd player was terrible,imop !
I still dont understand paying $500-900 with all there features these units cant do cd music worth a whiz?
Why is the cd digital playback so brittle sounding using these ht receivers!
Just be warned to all avr shoppers most receivers will dissapoint you if your expecting great sounding cd music above low volume!
THX certified might be the worst buy for cd playback,mine is awful at it!
Of course i bought it assuming cd music would be nice,it didnt play nice and buyers should know this,i certainly didnt know this!
A fellow complained his $20,000 pair of reference spkrs were too brite and irratating on cd music even with his mega dollar mono block reference amps!
IMOP,he really didnt want reference units,he wanted something that sounds incredibly good!
Thats a discussion in it self really! He assumed as i did the good quality will sound great, no it does not!
Some where between the pre-amp and amp stage theres only a handfull of companys that can do it right,on ht receivers that resolves cd playback nicely,!
Bob these few are not cheap either huh,i found a factory refurb unit for $999.99 and i was lucky too find it!! REAL LUCKY !!
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
The reason is quite simple: CDs sound like crap. They are usually badly recorded, so they end up sounding like you descibe. Also, most DVD players are not good CD players for music playback.

Sounds about right? :)

Cheers.
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
Are you implementing one of the surround modes during music playback? Also, did you check the setting (bass & treble) while playing music? I agree, some equipment is better suited for music than others, but neutrality should be the goal.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Agree with your tips Craig, but is there such a thing as neutrality in most CD recordings?
 
Crackerballer

Crackerballer

Senior Audioholic
Input crap= output crap.

Most HT AVRs will handle a SACD just fine coming from the right source and tuned properly.

*Edit: But all I listen to is rap, so WTF would I know :)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Well i found out just like many folks,a ht receiver does movie dvd surround just great,subs get firing bombs when called on,all the effects are truly amazing!
Trouble for most avr owners comes playing a cd in the dvd player,it plays nice at low volume and even eq set, but upon cutting the volume up some it sounds a little irratating and adding a little more volume its worse,jez whats wrong it just doesnt sound as good as it should?
Ive heard the term digital bite and that relates too what ive experenced with my thx certified 7.1 whiz box!

I have boxed up my $499.99 thx unit and now play movies through a avr 7.2 unit built too play music first philosophy,it does play awesome with out that awful irratating bite on cd playback and the bass resolution is beyond anything anywhere ive ever heard and im over 50yrs old !
I didnt know that my subs could sound like they do now!
I just couldnt imagine it because ive never heard notes that clearly defined and warm but so musically refined!
I was used too a ht avr that like most just works well on dolby or dts refined surround formats!
Yes they do surround formats nicely.
But if your a music lover be warned,a high percentage of ht avr out there really fall flat on there face playing a cd even with a surround format cut on during playback,except at real low volume!
Ive found this out the hard way,and its my opinion the digital music that should sound great,doesnt and i wish i knew why,its ok but too some people but ive heard it as it should sound now and I felt compelled to warn music lovers there are ht avr units that do music very well! imo y.t. JAMS
I don't think things should be as bad as you say.

1). Make sure you do not have any effects turned on, such as Cinema, or Concert Hall etc.

2) Do not use calibration programs like YPAO and Audessy.

3). Your receiver should have some type of straight mode, or pass through mode, whereby only the volume works and there is no signal processing including bass management. Your speakers will be running full range.

If you set it up like this the system should play like any other simple audio system.

There is one caveat. Speaker loads are complex, and I'm highly suspicious that at the price points of these receivers, with a lot of speakers, receiver amp modules are driven into trouble.

If you have preouts, experiment with a good external two channel amplifier.

In the set up I have suggested, it should not sound as you describe, unless your speakers are wanting.

If things are OK as I suggested, then you can add bass management for music listening.

If you engage the sub for music listening, I strongly recommend running your left and right mains full range, and shelving in the sub at a frequency X2 the F3 of the main speakers.

After that if you are happy with what you hear, then you can experiment with modes like Dolby PL 2x.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Well i found out just like many folks,a ht receiver does movie dvd surround just great,subs get firing bombs when called on,all the effects are truly amazing!
Trouble for most avr owners comes playing a cd in the dvd player,it plays nice at low volume and even eq set, but upon cutting the volume up some it sounds a little irratating and adding a little more volume its worse,jez whats wrong it just doesnt sound as good as it should?
Ive heard the term digital bite and that relates too what ive experenced with my thx certified 7.1 whiz box!

I have boxed up my $499.99 thx unit and now play movies through a avr 7.2 unit built too play music first philosophy,it does play awesome with out that awful irratating bite on cd playback and the bass resolution is beyond anything anywhere ive ever heard and im over 50yrs old !
I didnt know that my subs could sound like they do now!
I just couldnt imagine it because ive never heard notes that clearly defined and warm but so musically refined!
I was used too a ht avr that like most just works well on dolby or dts refined surround formats!
Yes they do surround formats nicely.
But if your a music lover be warned,a high percentage of ht avr out there really fall flat on there face playing a cd even with a surround format cut on during playback,except at real low volume!
Ive found this out the hard way,and its my opinion the digital music that should sound great,doesnt and i wish i knew why,its ok but too some people but ive heard it as it should sound now and I felt compelled to warn music lovers there are ht avr units that do music very well! imo y.t. JAMS
I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying.

But for the record most music isn't thrilling. In fact it takes great musicians a long time to put out there best stuff usually

If you want some excellent music I suggest starting with Mozart. He's from the classical period of music and he's got some excellent music. Check for high quality recordings.

There is nothing like classical music on any sound system. I know people have varying tastes, but I believe every genre has something great to offer. I refuse to just rap by the guys who stink. There are some true artists out there in rap just like other genres.
 
S

Schupo

Banned
HOW bad does it sound? Is it just poor quality audio, or does it sound like something might actually be wrong with your setup? Do DVDs from the same DVD player sound fine, but it's just CDs? What CDs are you listening to?
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
I don't think things should be as bad as you say.

1). Make sure you do not have any effects turned on, such as Cinema, or Concert Hall etc.

2) Do not use calibration programs like YPAO and Audessy.

3). Your receiver should have some type of straight mode, or pass through mode, whereby only the volume works and there is no signal processing including bass management. Your speakers will be running full range.

If you set it up like this the system should play like any other simple audio system.

There is one caveat. Speaker loads are complex, and I'm highly suspicious that at the price points of these receivers, with a lot of speakers, receiver amp modules are driven into trouble.

If you have preouts, experiment with a good external two channel amplifier.

In the set up I have suggested, it should not sound as you describe, unless your speakers are wanting.

If things are OK as I suggested, then you can add bass management for music listening.

If you engage the sub for music listening, I strongly recommend running your left and right mains full range, and shelving in the sub at a frequency X2 the F3 of the main speakers.

After that if you are happy with what you hear, then you can experiment with modes like Dolby PL 2x.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
^ I thing that's a very good post to start from.

So, Mr. OP, do that with your NAD T 765 A/V Receiver, plus if you have some SCADs or CDs that are from Audiophile labels, check it out.
You can even try with a lesser receiver.

Cheers,
Bob
 
J

JAMS

Junior Audioholic
Im bewildered by the difference in sound

OK,ive set up a certified thx pioneer 7.1 with 2 subs and dvd playback was awesome,cd music sucked using a sonicwave optical glass cable from all my dvd players!
After a year ive had enough and priced a rotel,adcom,cambridge and a nad,i barely could afford a refurb NADT765 so i bought it ,and my speakers on cd music went from the most brittle irratating speakers to sounding like martin logans for example!
And the pioneer has a auto eq setup that really helped in my room but overall it couldnt mask the lack of quality at medium listening volume,and quite more repugnunt at semi-loud!
Now im ok with the nad ,it plays superb,but why are the pioneer and others just home theatre receivers that does dolby or dts fine in movies only!
I just dont know why cd music feed digitally to these ht receivers except for a few ,cant sound fabulous?
Maybe i hear what others dont or im picky,but i know i dont want reference,i want it better than that,reference spkrs are flat responce and they sound really dead to me!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
OK,ive set up a certified thx pioneer 7.1 with 2 subs and dvd playback was awesome,cd music sucked using a sonicwave optical glass cable from all my dvd players!
After a year ive had enough and priced a rotel,adcom,cambridge and a nad,i barely could afford a refurb NADT765 so i bought it ,and my speakers on cd music went from the most brittle irratating speakers to sounding like martin logans for example!
And the pioneer has a auto eq setup that really helped in my room but overall it couldnt mask the lack of quality at medium listening volume,and quite more repugnunt at semi-loud!
Now im ok with the nad ,it plays superb,but why are the pioneer and others just home theatre receivers that does dolby or dts fine in movies only!
I just dont know why cd music feed digitally to these ht receivers except for a few ,cant sound fabulous?
Maybe i hear what others dont or im picky,but i know i dont want reference,i want it better than that,reference spkrs are flat responce and they sound really dead to me!
I'm no fan of receivers, but unless your speakers presented a load to your Pioneer, that it just could not cope with, I think there was something wrong with your set up.

I suppose its possible the amps in the receivers are a lot worse than I think, but honestly I feel your set up was likely sub optimal.

What are your speakers? You said with the NAD it sounds like Martin Logans. Do you have Martin Logans, or just saying your speakers sound like them? If you do have Martin Logans, I can understand why they might well sound dreadful powered by a Pioneer receiver.
 
J

JAMS

Junior Audioholic
no martin logans here

No luck on x/overs , tried everything but anologe pre-amp in from cd player!
Any custom equalizer setting wasnt as good as the auto mcacc settings!
It just didnt really come close to what i expected of it,my infintys sound fabulous now with the NAD receiver!
At volume now the EQ set at 80hz both subs along with the fronts sound beyond what i was expecting from the nad and spkrs,its like thank gosh i was right about the NADT765!
I Played elec. guitar for 30 yrs and i knew when it sounded right,ive allways had that, im precise on tuning like way picky,its got to be right to sound right i thought!
Ive 50yrs old now and i lost 5db in one ear at 5kz and and test normal hearing overall,but maybe im different,in that ive listened so intently over time that ive developed a pregudiced deserning ear for note resolution and a grasp of the overall sound!
I just wasnt pleased on cd music at all!
Sorry im just a flat out nitpicker thats hearing things ,30 yrs of blending notes did it too me! I did wear the frets to the ebony on a 1966 les paul custom awhile back!
I love the musical tight bass this nad has,no drop off from the subs to the beta 50s at all !!
Im not a bass head but the complete music range sounds great way down to celler dwelling jass bass! jez ,yes im happy now but i didnt no what i needed!
Its me,im different i guess,you thought i had out of phase spkrs maybe,no it was me!
If you ever hear a slightly harsh sounding cd and theres this biting high-mid frequency then that describes my experence,all the time!! Digital bite ive heard might be the term used,!
Ok i will test the nad this weekend,im buying ac/dc black Ice!
I thought others would hear there receivers the same way,i didnt realize till
now why you guys thought my setup must be off!
I wish you could give a listen to this nad,its way above the other receiver,its a huge difference too me!
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
You mentioned before that you got a good deal on your 765.
Can I ask you what deal was it?
 
J

JAMS

Junior Audioholic
NAD T765 lucky owner

Im not quite as lucky as yourself,audiogon sells highend audio everything used,refurbs, and there a authorized nad dealer so my factory fixed one was $999.99 and they sent original printed audiogon recept and the yellow duplicate! I really took a leap of faith it would play, and boy does it play fabulous!!
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Im not quite as lucky as yourself,audiogon sells highend audio everything used,refurbs, and there a authorized nad dealer so my factory fixed one was $999.99 and they sent original printed audiogon recept and the yellow duplicate! I really took a leap of faith it would play, and boy does it play fabulous!!
This is an excellent deal for your NAD JAMS, as it retails for $2,300.
Plus this is a real sweet sounding receiver too, much better than a lot of other receivers out there, even at that list price.

So, you have my biggest Congratulations on this JAMS. :)

I'm very glad you posted your general impressions on different sound quality
beetween different receivers. I'm 100% with you on this.

Keep up listening & enjoying. Put some good Blues music recordings too, for your NAD T 765 and your Soul. :cool:

Big Cheers,
Bob
 
J

JAMS

Junior Audioholic
I really didnt no what i could afford

Hey i took a leap of faith based on advice and reviews from this site and others and well i just had my mind set on finding a cd playing receiver for surround also!
I didnt find arcam or rotel in any deals, but there was a nad and a true 7.2 unit i found out later!
Gambling the nad would improve things, and consideing im 50yrs old and never having a receiver that played music decent i looked in the mirror and told that guy you deserve it!
I bought it just in time too!
I called audiogon just to make sure they had the audessey mic and the guy said he would be packing that unit he would check it !
He also said there about out of those,whew im soooo glad i didnt put that off!!!!
Any way im looking forward too reading your surround threads,i try too keep up but all the different categories of forums has me schitzoid or retarded or something!
I gambled and hit the JACKPOT!!!!
I have to set up the PS3 to stream multi-channel LPCM too the NADt765 too play the dolby hd and dts ma codecs this weekend!
AUDIOHOLICS LINKs gave me the complete instructions , THANKS YOU GUYS,
This a great site, ive taken a good course on audio/video,spkrs, from all the members here!
I thought my infinity beta 50s could sound better but your x/over advice at 80hz was exactly perfect, wow cd music is now alive yet warm and deep now,the velo sub fades as the betas take the bass! Ive never heard music so tightly defined in the bass regions before !
Theres alot of good bass above 80hz too! Im picky but not hard head!!!!
 
Patrick_Wolf

Patrick_Wolf

Audioholic
Going from a $500 AVR to a $2300 one, I'd sure as hell expect a difference! :)

I don't know how you had everything set-up with the 1016, but it looks like you have 8 speakers instead of 7, though if you're playing music in stereo that probably wouldn't matter as far as stressing the amp goes. We also don't know how large of a room you're trying to fill, but again it doesn't seem like you'd be starved of wattage w/ the 1016.

The NAD probably just has better digital processing and cleaner power. As it should for that price.
 

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