I have a 7.1, thinking about 7.2 or 9.2, should I or should I not???

[dertitan2]

Currently, I am running a 7.1 system
Pioneer Elite VSX-94 AVR
Pioneer Elite Blue Ray
Energy CF-70 Left & Right
Energy CC-10 Center
Energy CF-30 Surround Left & Right
Energy CB-20 Back Surround Left & Right
Martin Logan 500 Sub

First, i do understand that other than current Blue Ray configurations, not too many 7.1 movies or source material, also, this setup is in my living room, not a dedicated home theater

I am thinking about up grading my AVR and I have an extra set of speakers, CB-10, these were my original back surround, and when found a pair of CF-30 for really cheap and brand new off Craigslist, I put these recently purchased as my surround left and right, and moved the existing CB-20 that were my surround to hold the back surround positions.

So, with this extra pair of bookshelf speakers, CB-10, is it worth moving to a 9.2 setup??? If I do, should these be set as Front Wide or Front High?
Should these CB-10 stay as my back surround, and move these new CF-30 as a front wide, these would be hard to set as front high, ceilings are not that high...
My gut tells me the addition subwoofer in either a 7.2 or 9.2 setup would provide some additional affect, but is the extra cost in a 9.2 AVR worth it?
Or, do I keep what I have and add an outboard 3 channel amp to run the front LCR, like emotiva's 3 channel 200 watt amp

As a side note, when I am watching a 7.1 movie, like the hobbit etc...I honestly never hear or really notice my back surrounds, now that could be coming from my existing setup and speaker placement, I did run the Pioneer MACC calibration, so the AVR knows they are there and their distance to the listening position...

I know there are several similar post on this topic, but the more I read, the more I seem to get confused...

Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciated...

Upgrade my AVR
Upgrade to an outboard amp
Upgrade to a 7.2 setup, sell these extra bookcase speakers, and add a second sub, buy a better tv etc...

 

[TheWarrior]

No. If anything needs to be upgraded I'd say the sub, or at least have two of them.

 

[agarwalro]

There will be new 2014 receivers coming out soon and so that may be a good time upgrade the receiver. Specially around Thanksgiving is a good time to look for great pricing on them.

Getting good surround is all about properly placing the speakers. Do you have the side surrounds about 90-100 degrees from the main listening position and the rear surrounds about 5ft behind? If anything, an improperly set up surround setup will create problems with proper sound from the front three.

The choice to go 9.1 or 9.2 with wide or height speakers is really a matter of preference. Some folks prefer wides others prefer heights. You might just have to try it for yourself in a temporary arrangement to see if it is worth making a permanent setup. Heck, if you are not getting good effects from the rear surrounds, you might as well take them out and use them as wides or heights. If you do go this route, it will be best to use the 30"s for wides, but the 20's will work for heights.

IMO, get a second sub. What would your budget be?

 

[dertitan2]

the current sub i have is the Martin Logan Dynamo 500, at the time I thought I was buying a fairly decent sub, guess I wasn't

if I were to purchase a new sub, my range would be from $750 to $1000, any suggestions

it sounds like, I may just need to replace my existing sub altogether, whether I buy another one or not...

 

[dertitan2]

when I purchased the martin logan dynamo 500, this was a huge improvement over the small 8" energy sub I initially bought, guess I was wrong...

so here is the question, is it a better spending of $ to just replace my sub altogether, and not worry about adding a second sub???

If I were to replace, my budget would be $750 to $1000, for a sub, if that is all I am changing out etc...

 

[agarwalro]

How big is the room? Does it open to a kitchen or dining room?

Get rid of it for two of these... Get one for now and eventually replace the ML sub with a second one.

POWER SOUND AUDIO — XS15 Home Audio Subwoofer

Two of these would be better,

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html

 

[dertitan2]

room size, roughly 15' X 20', vaulted ceiling running the length, about 12 to 15' at highest point, standard door opening into the kitchen, about a 9' opening into the dinning room, opening into the hallway

 

[agarwalro]

Okay, that is a massive space to properly pressurize and you will need beefy subs. I can guarantee that the ML while a step up from what you had before is nowhere near sufficient. The HSU VTF15 is $1025 shipped and is the minimum in a dual configuration. Further, you need to eek them maximum performance by optimizing location and equalization.

The benefits of dual sub are best achieved when you can equalize them independently. Your Pioneer MCCA cannot do this. But, you can use a Y cable and the process is not difficult. This article will tell you how to find the best locations, and this one for how to properly integrate two subs when the receiver cannot independently detect them and auto calibrate for two.

IMO, replace the ML with one Hsu. When you buy a receiver than can detect and set up two subs, add a second one.

Cost no object (within reason) sub: If you want something with huge output but small footprint, here is a superlative performer, and two of these will be visceral compared to the ML. SVS PC13-Ultra - 1000 Watt DSP Controlled, 13" Ported Cylinder Subwoofer with Variable Tuning

 

[dertitan2]

I actually measured last night, and my guess-timate above was fairly close, 15' wide, about 20' long and the highest point of the vault is 12'View attachment SKMBT_42314050109580.pdf

i attached a VERY rough sketch

in doing some negotiations with my wife last night, i have between $3K and $4K to spend on upgrading, now I actually like my energy speakers, so if they stay, where would this amount of money be better spent?

 

[agarwalro]

The ML sub goes and replace it with the Hsu VTF15. IMO, at this time this will be a sufficient upgrade and there is no point blowing the rest of the budget on unnecessary audio upgrades. The DLP TV seems like a good next upgrade.

Your layout can use some improvement to get the best out of the Energy set. Would you consider mounting a flat screen above the fireplace and rearranging the speakers around that location? The CF70's will be symmetric to the fireplace and CC10 will be centered under the screen. This will hugely improve the overall sound from the front three.

 

[dertitan2]

the challenge with our fire place, is that the mantle on top is very elevated, once you place the center speaker, then the TV ontop, it would be about 5 to 6' off the floor

 

[dertitan2]

the HSU VTF15....

we basically watch TV, Movies, and every now and then music, like when I am cooking or cleaning dishes etc...

can i assume this sub is good for both movies and music? HSU VTF15

 

[agarwalro]

I am cooking or cleaning dishes etc...

That conversation on the budget must have been a lot different than mine .

can i assume this sub is good for both movies and music?

The VTF15 is a very potent sub. You're in for a shock wrt. how insufficient the ML is in comparison . As far as music vs. movies, sealed and ported have trade offs. In your case, for the room size and intended use, the sealed vs ported consideration is immaterial. So, yes, it will be good for movies and music.

 

[dertitan2]

first, i really do appreciate all of the feedback and suggestions

regarding the repositioning of the TV etc...I have friend coming over to take a look on Monday to see if we can lower the mantle on the fireplace...so we will how that goes, and this will help with the WAF

now, just a few more questions, if you do not mind...
i have a connection to get some really, low pricing on several AVR, dealer pricing, i have a good friend etc...can't get into specific etc..nevertheless...

so i may go ahead and upgrade my avr, i have several choices Yamaha RX-A3030, 2030 or the 1030, also I can get the Denon AVR4520CI or the AVRX4000, i went into a Best Buy last night and I listed to both the Denon 4000 and the yamaha 1030, i found the sound of the yamaha to be warmer, but that is listening to it in their room, not my living room, of course the pricing on the AVR4520ci and the a3030 are at the top, the pricing on the 1030 and 4000 is really good, any thoughts, my eyes have gone cross-eyed reading posts on these two today...

back to the subwoofer discussion, here are the choices i that seem to make sense, would like you impression:
I can purchase (1) VTF15 plus shipping $1022, now they have a deal where if you purchase (2) of the VTF15, price would be plus shipping $1995, in an email with the tech guys at HSU, for the size of my living room (i.e. 3000 cubic feet) they just suggested (1), thoughts?

In speaking with the guys over at SVS, said that (1) PB13Ultra would sound amazing, price with free shipping is $1999, however, the guy at SVS said that (1) Pb12plus would sound good, but he still suggested I go with (2) PB-2000, price on those would be $1598

I honestly have no idea of what any of these subs would sound like, and with these prices kind of being all over the place to a degree, I am not sure what is the best option, thoughts?

 

[agarwalro]

i went into a Best Buy last night and I listed to both the Denon 4000 and the yamaha 1030, i found the sound of the yamaha to be warmer, but that is listening to it in their room, not my living room, of course

In controlled conditions, you will be hard pressed to tell the difference in sound between AVRs. Specifically, an AVR or amp should not make the same track sound different than what the recording engineer intended. As you mentioned, there is very little control on how something sounds in the sub optimal Best Buy display. Also, there is no idea how the receivers were set up. Maybe the Yamaha was set up in a manner to boost some frequencies. Maybe the Denon was in Pure Direct but the Yamaha had some processing engaged. Who knows? I can tell you that both, the X4000 and 1030 are good receivers and should not sound different from each other.

so i may go ahead and upgrade my avr, i have several choices Yamaha RX-A3030, 2030 or the 1030, also I can get the Denon AVR4520CI or the AVRX4000, i went into a Best Buy last night and I listed to both the Denon 4000 and the yamaha 1030, i found the sound of the yamaha to be warmer, but that is listening to it in their room, not my living room, of course the pricing on the AVR4520ci and the a3030 are at the top, the pricing on the 1030 and 4000 is really good, any thoughts, my eyes have gone cross-eyed reading posts on these two today...

Since you have dealer pricing, might as well get the top of the line. So, it comes down to Denon 4520 or Yamaha 3030. Both are excellent and you will not be dissatisfied with either. Get whichever has more of the features you see yourself using or whichever is cheaper.

I can purchase (1) VTF15 plus shipping $1022, now they have a deal where if you purchase (2) of the VTF15, price would be plus shipping $1995, in an email with the tech guys at HSU, for the size of my living room (i.e. 3000 cubic feet) they just suggested (1), thoughts?...In speaking with the guys over at SVS, said that (1) PB13Ultra would sound amazing, price with free shipping is $1999, however, the guy at SVS said that (1) Pb12plus would sound good, but he still suggested I go with (2) PB-2000

You gotta love companies that don't push you into buying more than you need or spending more than you have to. Kudos to both! Sheer output wise, the list will look like this, SVS PB13 > PB12 > Hsu VTF15 > PB2000 (or PB2000 > VTF15 depending on frequency band in question). You need to lock down a budget and this will limit the options.

I honestly have no idea of what any of these subs would sound like, and with these prices kind of being all over the place to a degree, I am not sure what is the best option, thoughts?

One big sub, gives good output but potentially not good coverage across multiple seats. Two smaller subs give good coverage across multiple seats, but may not give you the slam of one big sub. So, best is to have two big subs . IMO, 2 PB2000 is the best choice. A single one of these will cover you on sheer output and two will give you coverage across multiple locations.

Here is another curve ball while your budget is all over the place, Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer FV15HP. I would get two of these.

 

[walter duque]

I think the best way to go is 7.4