I hate being a beginner.

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evilash1996

Audiophyte
How many vinyl audiophiles are out there with me?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
You've got nothing to complain about. It was a heluva lot harder in the early 60's before anyone had the internet to go crying to for easy instant answers. We had to do our own legwork which included reading and researching things called books and magazines.
 
E

evilash1996

Audiophyte
But at the same time it is also hrad getting into the vinyl hobby this day and age. There are no magazines or literature that can easily teach you how to grasp the information about vinyl. The older generations had the chance to live through that era and learn as they grew up. Younger people like me have to resort to the internet about this information. Sounds like an easy job, but try researching about vintage vinyl turntables in the 21st century, not that is. Not saying it is as hard as it was, but not as easy as it may seem.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
You've got nothing to complain about. It was a heluva lot harder in the early 60's before anyone had the internet to go crying to for easy instant answers. We had to do our own legwork which included reading and researching things called books and magazines.
+1. It is so much easier now. In a few months of reading web sites you can pick up more knowledge than you could in years of reading magazines and making mistakes before the internet came along. Plus, the equipment is overall so much better and relatively cheaper.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
"Younger people like me have to resort to the internet..." WTF???

But at the same time it is also hrad getting into the vinyl hobby this day and age. There are no magazines or literature that can easily teach you how to grasp the information about vinyl. The older generations had the chance to live through that era and learn as they grew up. about this information. Sounds like an easy job, but try researching about vintage vinyl turntables in the 21st century, not that is. Not saying it is as hard as it was, but not as easy as it may seem.
Reading and absorbing information hasn't changed since man first scrawled information on cave walls and papyrus. The principles remain the same.

If anything, the Internet has made it easy, perhaps too easy, if this thread is any indication.

This ain't the Matrix where they can inject information into your brain. It does tale a little effort.

You've got google, doncha? Do you know how to initiate a search and then read through some of the hits so you can learn something.

And, as for forums like these: I guess reading through threads on the subjects that interest you, and absorbing what they say, is too much effort?

And, yes, there are are magazines. Spend a few hours at your local Barnes and Noble and see what you find in the magazine racks. You might be surprised.

FWIW, I built my first little amp from a circuit in a textbook out of old radio parts when I was 14 so I don't think age can be seen as an impediment today.
 
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evilash1996

Audiophyte
Do you know of any good vinyl magazines? I would love to know/read some.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
There are no pure vinyl magazines. I don't think there ever was. You might learn some things reading That Absolute Sound, Stereophile and even Audio Express, to name just three. Even the Brits have some input because What HiFi sometimes has articles on that.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Do you know of any good vinyl magazines? I would love to know/read some.
As much as I think vinyl is an utter waste of time, try the Stereophile web site. They have many old articles archived, and they even still have a vinyl bigot or two on staff. (Like Michael Fremer.)
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you want to know what vinyl stuff to get do a search on TLS Guy. He has a few vinyl related posts. Gotta love the old man wanting people to read books. :D I actually miss books somedays. Until I have to move then I thank God I don't need books for this hobby.
 
96cobra10101

96cobra10101

Senior Audioholic
As much as I think vinyl is an utter waste of time, try the Stereophile web site. They have many old articles archived, and they even still have a vinyl bigot or two on staff. (Like Michael Fremer.)
Was "Goldmine" a vinyl mag (more newspaper sized than a magazine) or just about pricing?
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
To save you some time.
Put in a CD and rub some sand paper together, or put on an FM radio that has background hiss.
There, you have the vinyl experience.
I wouldn't go back... no matter how cool my ego thought vinyl was.
:D:p
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Unless budget restricted, some of the new entry level tables from ProJect and Rega have tone arms of a much higher quality than the vintage turntables could ever dream of having.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I can sympathize. One of the problems for beginners today is that there is SO MUCH information - and also so much MISinformation. Research online today is less about absorbing useful info and more about learning how to sift through all the bull. And that's very much a challenge, because you'll have some people telling you one thing, some people telling you the exact opposite, a whole bunch of unrelated stuff that gets thrown at you anyway, a bunch of pseudo-science, a bunch of jaded cynics telling you that EVERYTHING sucks and that NO ONE knows what they're talking about, and not a whole lot of people who are knowledgeable, patient and willing to take the time to go on the journey with you.

So while finding useful information used to be more difficult in the past, now it's gone the opposite way, with too much information, and a lot of it leading you in the wrong direction!

That said, as a beginner, there is a lot that you can do to make it easier for others to help you. To me, one of the best things that you can do is to read on your own and then ask specific questions on a forum such as this. Wide, general topics are difficult to discuss because they take so much time and lead to so many tangents. But specific questions can be answered more easily and quickly, and you'll find a lot more people willing to help you that way.

The other thing you can do to really help yourself is to make a note of anything you read that doesn't make sense to you, and then search for yourself on that specific question. We often get a lot of the same questions on a forum like this. Stuff about whether or not cables make a difference, whether power cords and power conditioners make any difference. ridiculous little rocks and orbs and crap that is supposed to somehow improve your audio without any reasonable explanation of how it would accomplish that task. Sadly, as a beginner, you're sure to eventually run into all of that stuff - sometimes in very "legit"-looking publications - and it's all just part of that noise and misinformation that I was talking about. Stuff that was invented purely to separate the gullible from their money. But it's peppered with enough pseudo-science to get just about anybody wondering about its validity. And just doing a Google search isn't all that much help, because you'll get search results for both sides, and you won't necessarily know who is telling the truth!

But if you search on a forum like this one, you'll find that these questions have been asked and answered many times. I don't get nearly as frustrated and upset as some folks by seeing the same questions popping up every month because I understand that there are always new people finding their way into the A/V hobby, and everyone is going to run into the same questions and misinformation, and they're going to want to ask and talk about it. But some knowledgeable folks don't want to answer the same questions repeatedly - and I get that, because the forums do have a search function and it is possible to find the answers to these common questions without making a new post ;)

In the specific case of vinyl records, that simply isn't my area of interest or knowledge, so I'm afraid I can't offer a lot of help in this specific area. I do think the vinyl fanatics are ridiculous in their claims that vinyl is "better" than any digital format. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the recording, mixing and mastering process. To attribute the final quality to the medium on which the information is recorded, rather than to the process that went into making the recording is completely backwards. So all of that nonsense is really more about psychology than audio.

But none of that has anything to do with simply wanting to be a vinyl collector or wanting to be a part of the vinyl subculture. That's totally fine by me. It's the same as getting into any niche area of any hobby, and I think it's totally cool if you want to make vinyl your "thing" and really immerse yourself into that one specific area of audio.

But if you're getting into vinyl because you've happened upon some portion of the fanatics out there who will claim that vinyl is "better" than any current or digital format, then you've unfortunately fallen into the trap of being swayed by people who talk with conviction, but not a lot of actual knowledge, reality or truth.

There are a lot of really good reasons to love and get into vinyl. There's the whole history of it, which is insanely cool and a whole world unto itself. So to me, there's no need to try and "justify" one's interest in vinyl by getting into the technical aspects and debating whether it is "better" than modern formats or not. It's its own thing. It's got a rich and deep history that is fascinating. I actually think it's really unfortunate that there are a very vocal group of vinyl fans out there who seem to feel there is a need to turn their love of vinyl into some sort of crusade or "format war", or who feel the need to say that all digital formats are "crap" in order to feel better about themselves somehow. That's the part I find ridiculous, and sadly, it's very difficult to get into any part of the vinyl subculture without a lot of that nonsense cropping up.

But the history is undeniably cool. Appreciating the artistry that went into creating vinyl recordings is very cool. Learning to listen critically and appreciating the nuances of vinyl recordings is cool. There's so much to enjoy. All of the comparisons to digital are completely unnecessary, IMO. And as a beginner, one of the best things you can do is to simply realize that there are a lot of people out there who have become jaded and cynical, set in their ways, and just plain weird! So listen to what folks have to say, take it all in, but never let the old coots tell you that what you hear with your own two ears is "wrong".

When it comes to something as emotional as the connection that a lot of people have to music and to the way they think familiar audio recordings ought to sound, there's really no way you're ever going to find a consensus on something like vintage turntables and vintage speakers. One guy is going to tell you that a certain piece of gear is perfect while some other guy is going to say that the exact same piece of gear is crap. And neither guy is basing his opinion on anything objective. It's purely emotional for so much of this stuff, so really, the only opinion that matters in the end is your own :)

That said, one way that you can help yourself is to limit the variables. Get highly accurate speakers and a highly accurate receiver, integrated amp, or pre-amp + amps, and then only swap out turntables for a while so that you get to learn first hand how that ONE component makes a difference to the sound. When you've found a turntable or two that you really like, you can start to play around with different amps and pre-amps to see if any of those make a difference for you. And finally, you can start to swap out speakers (which make the largest difference) to really dial in to your own, personal "perfect" sound.

You'll run into just a ton of differing opinions along the way. But what will eventually become clear to you is that folks in the vinyl world are never after pure accuracy or the most objectively "perfect" sound. They're after an emotional experience - which is just as noble and legitimate a goal as any other in this hobby! Just don't let that emotion get in the way of being honest with yourself. Listen "blind" sometimes so that you're not being influenced by what you expect to hear based on knowing what equipment is being used. Make your own comparisons. And only ever change one variable at a time.

Best of luck on your journey!

:D
 
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