I don't know whether to be impressed or worried

[highfigh]

Here's the lead-in:

I just bought a pair of cheap Dayton speakers from Parts Express for a customer whose wife has been complaining about the sound from the living room when she's in the den reading or watching TV. Apparently, it's not possible for her to close the door to the den, so while I was there installing a DVD recorder so he can keep the shows he saves on his DVR, he asked about how to keep the War Department happy. I told him that a center channel speaker set behind his chair would help and that I could give him volume control buttons on his Harmony remote. I ran the wires semi-exposed in case it didn't work and told him I'd find some small speakers that would work.

Now, the part I'm wondering about:

I can't find anything about the sound that I don't like. I don't really care if they do well for bass, because his hearing issues are mainly in the speech range (he denies that he has hearing loss) and isn't a big audio person- he just wants to be able to hear the dialog without the wife getting PO'd.

Here's my first impression:

The highs aren't extremely extended but they're not shrill, either. The crossover is a single cap for the tweeter, the dome looks like metalized polycarbonate and the 6-1/2" woofer is poly with a rubber surround. The cabinet is wrapped with black vinyl and the terminal is glued in. It has a decent sized piece of fiberfill (the slightly tighter and firmer kind, not the cotton candy type) and so far, the sound is decent. Vocals are distinct, they don't seem to clash with guitars, keyboards and drums and the image is good/stable. Acoustic piano sounds more natural than I would have ever thought coming through "cheap speakers", which are drastically better than I remember anything of this size when I started selling audio in the late-'70s. For that matter, these are better than much more expensive brands/models that had a great following at the time.

Here's a link:
htttp://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652&FTR=B652&CFID=5127152&CFTOKEN=57942503

They could probably benefit from an inductor on the woofer (a little 'honky' on 'Water, by the Who) but the drums sound good and they don't seem to care what kind of music is going through them.

I never thought I would say anything this good about a pair of speakers that list for less than $35 but here I am, doing just that. Put a sub under them, cross them at about 100Hz and make it happen, Cap'n!

Either they're actually decent, or my ability to discern fine detail in sound and music have been greatly overrated by someone.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hey highfigh,
I think this is the first time I actually see pair of 6.5" bookshelfs for $25
I think this is crazy, and I do know lot of people who still got plastic HTIB and these suckers would do world of good to improve sound.
I never had a chance to listed to these speakers, but based on your and other people on pe, it seems like we got a new EXTREME value king !
Obviously they would be even better with right crossover.

 

[JerryLove]

Sounds like a great unit for DIY modding.

 

[highfigh]

Sounds like a great unit for DIY modding.

I don't think I would bother, other than the inductor on the low pass and even that's not definite until I listen to them more. These are a kick butt speaker for someone who wants decent but can't afford much or where the risk of theft is higher, like a college dorm room (you know, passed out with the door wide open). Also, for people who don't want big speakers, like some wives.

Here's a better link for these:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652

 

[lie495fc]

test result from zaph
link:http://zaphaudio.com/Dayton-B652.html

 

[TLS Guy]

Here's the lead-in:

I just bought a pair of cheap Dayton speakers from Parts Express for a customer whose wife has been complaining about the sound from the living room when she's in the den reading or watching TV. Apparently, it's not possible for her to close the door to the den, so while I was there installing a DVD recorder so he can keep the shows he saves on his DVR, he asked about how to keep the War Department happy. I told him that a center channel speaker set behind his chair would help and that I could give him volume control buttons on his Harmony remote. I ran the wires semi-exposed in case it didn't work and told him I'd find some small speakers that would work.

Now, the part I'm wondering about:

I can't find anything about the sound that I don't like. I don't really care if they do well for bass, because his hearing issues are mainly in the speech range (he denies that he has hearing loss) and isn't a big audio person- he just wants to be able to hear the dialog without the wife getting PO'd.

Here's my first impression:

The highs aren't extremely extended but they're not shrill, either. The crossover is a single cap for the tweeter, the dome looks like metalized polycarbonate and the 6-1/2" woofer is poly with a rubber surround. The cabinet is wrapped with black vinyl and the terminal is glued in. It has a decent sized piece of fiberfill (the slightly tighter and firmer kind, not the cotton candy type) and so far, the sound is decent. Vocals are distinct, they don't seem to clash with guitars, keyboards and drums and the image is good/stable. Acoustic piano sounds more natural than I would have ever thought coming through "cheap speakers", which are drastically better than I remember anything of this size when I started selling audio in the late-'70s. For that matter, these are better than much more expensive brands/models that had a great following at the time.

Here's a link:
htttp://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652&FTR=B652&CFID=5127152&CFTOKEN=57942503

They could probably benefit from an inductor on the woofer (a little 'honky' on 'Water, by the Who) but the drums sound good and they don't seem to care what kind of music is going through them.

I never thought I would say anything this good about a pair of speakers that list for less than $35 but here I am, doing just that. Put a sub under them, cross them at about 100Hz and make it happen, Cap'n!

Either they're actually decent, or my ability to discern fine detail in sound and music have been greatly overrated by someone.

Have you guys been listening? I have been trying to tell you for ages that crossovers cause huge problems, especially when not done right. You all laughed when I said I preferred some table radios to a fairly expensive set of speakers touted on these forums.

A fairly decent full range speaker topped out with a tweeter from a first order high pass filter is a minimal phase shift transient perfect design. Once you get more complicated you open a can of worms with a lot of problems. Far more often than not these problems are not solved!

 

[highfigh]

Some details I should have included- I placed them on stands with the bottom about 26" from the floor, the back a foot from the wall and 3' or more from any side wall. Also, I had them crossed over at 130Hz and all of this removes the bass issues and boundary effects. The first reflections aren't an issue and the mid range peak I mentioned was verified and countered by using his improved crossover.

I think my opinion was on track- it's a cheap speaker and for the price, it's not bad. I wasn't expecting much more than speech intelligibility for someone whose ears have been abused by his time in the military and I think they'll work fine for this purpose.

I never expected anyone to do such thorough testing on a pair of $32 speakers. He must have been bored.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Is this is Frequency response of $25/pr speakers??... Holy crap !!
And this is before mods !!!
Obiously this can't replace $500 speakers, but can easily replace and vastly improve TV speakers

and After cheap mod:

 

[highfigh]

Have you guys been listening? I have been trying to tell you for ages that crossovers cause huge problems, especially when not done right. You all laughed when I said I preferred some table radios to a fairly expensive set of speakers touted on these forums.

A fairly decent full range speaker topped out with a tweeter from a first order high pass filter is a minimal phase shift transient perfect design. Once you get more complicated you open a can of worms with a lot of problems. Far more often than not these problems are not solved!

I have never built a pair of speakers with more than 12dB/8va slope because I think phase shift is something to be avoided and IMO, insertion loss is a waste. I would never laugh when someone says they prefer a table radio to bad speakers that are expensive- I have heard too many in this category to not agree. Some of the most expensive speakers I have heard were constricted sounding, dull and not worth bothering with.

Since you're here and you have Bass Box Pro, would you mind modeling a box for Peerless 830874 woofer and a crossover for this woofer with the Peerless 812687 (DT-105) tweeter? What are your thoughts on narrow cabinets with veneer or some other hard surface/rounded corners vs using some kind of absorptive material on a wider face/rounded corners?

This page has the woofer's specs:
http://tymphany.com/830874

and the tweeter data sheet is here:
www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/peerless/812687.pdf
Or, here:
www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/peerless/812687.pdf

According to WinISD, 16.2 liters Vb, tuned to 47.71 will work but that doesn't show power handling, etc. I also found this (http://tymphany.com/830874-app-note) and the port velocity seems to be awfully high.

No rush and thanks for any info or opinions you can provide.

At the moment, I have the tweeter crossed at 2500Hz and because I was using a different woofer until today, it's crossed at 2KHz to reduce a rise in the response that doesn't exist with the new ones.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have never built a pair of speakers with more than 12dB/8va slope because I think phase shift is something to be avoided and IMO, insertion loss is a waste. I would never laugh when someone says they prefer a table radio to bad speakers that are expensive- I have heard too many in this category to not agree. Some of the most expensive speakers I have heard were constricted sounding, dull and not worth bothering with.

Since you're here and you have Bass Box Pro, would you mind modeling a box for Peerless 830874 woofer and a crossover for this woofer with the Peerless 812687 (DT-105) tweeter? What are your thoughts on narrow cabinets with veneer or some other hard surface/rounded corners vs using some kind of absorptive material on a wider face/rounded corners?

This page has the woofer's specs:
http://tymphany.com/830874

and the tweeter data sheet is here:
www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/peerless/812687.pdf
Or, here:
www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/peerless/812687.pdf

According to WinISD, 16.2 liters Vb, tuned to 47.71 will work but that doesn't show power handling, etc. I also found this (http://tymphany.com/830874-app-note) and the port velocity seems to be awfully high.

No rush and thanks for any info or opinions you can provide.

At the moment, I have the tweeter crossed at 2500Hz and because I was using a different woofer until today, it's crossed at 2KHz to reduce a rise in the response that doesn't exist with the new ones.

I actually have a design for that woofer on my web site. It uses a different tweeter from SEAS which seemed the best match. That SEAS tweeter is a very good value.

Since it is not a sub, that vent velocity is acceptable, especially if rear ported.