I could use your advice

[The Chukker]

Firstly, thanks to the mods and forum regulars for their kind welcome I recieved in my first posting yesterday.
On to business... I am looking to upgrade to a separates solution within the next several months (this of course depends solely on how long the IRS takes to process my taxes ). I have owned several integrated recievers in the past but this will be my first foray into a pre-amp/amplifier set up. I was looking at the Reference S50 pre and Reference S200.7 from B & K but THEN your review of the Emotiva MPS-1 caught my eye. After reading the review I am 50/50 on whether I have the technical expertise to set up such a beast but it is so attractive from a price/features standpoint. The B & K is pretty much plug and play but they are quite a bit more expensive (as in $5000) and when I put them into your search db I came up with nothing. Are they a reputable company with good products? I currently own (and unabashedly adore) a Denon AVR 3805 and the criteria for its replacement is a dramatic (that is AUDIBLE) increase in power and fidelity. Would the 3805 be suitable as a pre-amp for the Emotiva MPS-1? Or would the new Yamaha reciever recently reviewed (or perhaps an entirely different one) be a more suitable choice?

Any and all opinions are VERY much appreciated,
Charles

 

[Vancouver]

If I were you I would consider Rotel. In the price range of $5,000 USD you would be hard pressed to find something better then the 1068/1077. Or if you dont want to spend that much on a digital amp then you could always do the 1068/1095 combo for the same price.

Rotel is way is known by most as being way under priced for its performance.

 

[jaxvon]

I believe AV123 has a fairly liberal return policy, so if you wanted to float the purchase on your CC for awhile, you could test it out in your system.

 

[rolyasm]

I am not sure that everyone else would agree, but Earthquake makes a wonderful amp. They have a 5 or 7 channel amp that specs out at over 300 watts per channel with all the other stats on it just as impressive. For the money and even for more cash, I would think it would be difficult to beat the amps. As far as Pre's go, tough call. I am in the same situation, looking for seperates. I am going to get the Earthquake amp but am looking for a good pre. Some I have considered are Sherwood Newcastle, Emotiva (since they are new not a lot of reviews yet), Rotel or possibly using a receiver as a pre. Tough decision. Good luck. Here are some reviews of the Earthquake..
http://www.hometheatermag.com/poweramplifiers/905earthquake/index1.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/earthquake-cinenova-grande-power-amplifier-10-2004.html

Roly

 

[mulester7]

I am not sure that everyone else would agree, but Earthquake makes a wonderful amp. They have a 5 or 7 channel amp that specs out at over 300 watts per channel with all the other stats on it just as impressive. For the money and even for more cash, I would think it would be difficult to beat the amps. As far as Pre's go, tough call. I am in the same situation, looking for seperates. I am going to get the Earthquake amp but am looking for a good pre. Some I have considered are Sherwood Newcastle, Emotiva (since they are new not a lot of reviews yet), Rotel or possibly using a receiver as a pre. Tough decision. Good luck. Here are some reviews of the Earthquake..
http://www.hometheatermag.com/poweramplifiers/905earthquake/index1.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/earthquake-cinenova-grande-power-amplifier-10-2004.html

Roly

.....I'll throw in this lick for used McIntosh....find another stereo pre-amp 30 years old that still brings $1000.....

 

[The Chukker]

That's all interesting but...

Thank you all for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it. I perhaps misled you when I quoted the $5000 asking price for the B & K because that price point isn't necessarily my target. I was hoping to spend less without compromising performance . OK, that being said, what do think about using my 3805 as a pre and using a dedicated amp like the Emotiva to drive my speakers? With a $2000 outlay I could improve my HT and leave room to upgrade my pre down the road -- or would you discourage me from this path? I read the archived Audioholics review of the unit (admittedly from 2004) and the editors seemed to gush about its capabilities and the back of the unit supports pre outs for all channels. I am a little worried about buying a pre amp right now because of the uncertainty involving the next gen Dolby Digital and DTS HD formats and exactly how it will be implemented (HDMI only or will it also support Toslink/Coax). The 3805 does not support HDMI. I do like one of the features of the Emotiva in that they are planning stereo modules down the road where you can eventually support up to 14 discrete channels or mix and match as you see fit. And again, the price is right. Now if only you folks had done my homework for me and told me which pre to buy -- lazy bastards

 

[The Chukker]

OK, fine I'll do it

Now if only you folks had done my homework for me and told me which pre to buy -- lazy bastards

Here is a quote from the Audioholics Review of the 3805:
"There could be an argument for how adding a separate amplifier and using the Denon’s preamp outputs for the main channels (center as well for home theater) could provide some added dynamic and smoothness but at the price point of this receiver you would have to consider taking the leap to a completely different solution – whether that be separates or a flagship receiver like the AVR-5803A. For $1200 the AVR-3805 performed like a receiver costing much more and it would, in fact, make an excellent (and highl;y [sic] competitive) preprocessor for those looking for a top-end unit to match with a separate amplifier."

Here is where I could use your expertise (remember I have never used separates before) -- the 3805 only has RCA pre outs. I read the Audioholics article concerning balanced vs. unbalanced -- anyone else out there using unbalanced in concert with a dedicated amp? Also, I am currently running my center bi-wired (mid and high) with a low level full range in; Def Tech recommends this for optimum performance. When I utilize a high current amp like the MPS-1 should I put the jumpers back on and run the center full range or should I split the low level center pre out (at the 3805) and run one to the full range in on the speaker and the other to the MPS-1?

 

[bigpapa]

I hook up balanced and unbalanced all the time. If you're not running long distances or aren't in a very noisy environment, I'd doubt you'd be able to hear any noise at all. Decent unbalanced interconnects not ran parallel to electrical cords will be fine. It's the same exact signal. Make sure you use true coaxial audio cables, not twisted shielded pair... some amps don't like those types of cables and will oscillate.

If I have an amp/pre-amp with balanced IC's, I'll usually just use them, just in case the client has his audiophile buddy over and asks him if the stupid installer used the balanced interconnects, since "it's better"

I'd bi-amp your center, if your new amp isn't as powerful. If the amps have crossover/frequency control, then the benefit would be increased IMO.

Just to help cloud up the issue, I install ADA alot. I'd have it in my house if I could afford it. They make industrial metal boxes; bulletproof, heavy, testosterone driven. If you seriously consider them, make sure you check control options; some only have 12VDC control. At least ADA doesn't cost as much as Mcintosh

 

[bigpapa]

I use the Jensen ISO-MAX for long distances. Usually though, I'm using RCA's running a few feet. Let us know if you use them and hear a difference.

But, that's amp money you'll be spending

 

[The Chukker]

I use the Jensen ISO-MAX for long distances.

I plan on putting my newly purchased Tripplite conditioner/voltage regulator at the very bottom of my HT enclosure with the Emotiva above that on its own shelf. The 3805 will be used as a pre just above that on its own shelf -- so my RCA interconnects shouldn't have to be more than 2 feet or so as well as reasonably shielded from power cables and speaker cables. I haven't purchased the amp yet so I don't know its exact dimensions (I'm pretty sure its approximately ummm... frickin' huge) but hopefully there will be room at the very top for a BD player or HD DVD player. If not, there will be room just below my center in my TV stand -- besides, the first gen stuff should be awfully pretty to look at.

OT but, took my first trip to Hawaii this past fall and omg what a beautiful place to call home; nice people too.

 

[westcott]

I too was considering a purchase of a separate amp with my 3805 before my light control issues ate my budget. It took me a while to recover from that.

Are you planning a home theater or just two or three channel listening?

Also, do you really feel comfortable sending full range signals to your center speaker and not using bass mangement?

The Sunfire Signature Grand 400 x 5 was the amp I was considering for an upgrade for my home theater. I bought one and borrowed some cables. Hooked it up and fired it up.

It sounded good but not US$3500 good. My dealer was very understanding and allowed me to return it.

Your mileage may vary and I do own some very sensitive speakers to begin with. I suggest working with a dealer like this in your area.

Good Luck!!!!

 

[bigpapa]

OT but, took my first trip to Hawaii this past fall and omg what a beautiful place to call home; nice people too.

Yep, lotsa nice weather, palm trees, and beaches do that to you. I have the added burden of playing with wealthy people's audio equipment on top of that. Usually their house in on a beach.

Sounds like your IC's are short. I'd wing it without balanced cables/converters, just use coaxial RCA's.

Having the power on the same circuit will help also.

If you end up needing some balanced cables, I'll make them for you free of charge. But you have to come pick them up.He he he

 

[The Chukker]

Are you planning a home theater or just two or three channel listening? Also, do you really feel comfortable sending full range signals to your center speaker and not using bass mangement?

As you can see from my component list below, I am definitely using my setup mainly as a home theater; however that being said IMO the 3805 is very good at 2 channel in pure direct mode when I listen to music (usually while cooking dinner, not sittlng doing critical listening). As for my center, it is fairly sophisticated: three sets of inputs (low/mid/high) as well as a low level in used for managing bass (not LFE however). The manufacturer suggests for optimum performance to bi-wire the mid and high inputs and run a low level full range in from the center pre out. I guess my concern is with using the 3805 as a pre I would have to split the output from the 3805 to not only feed the center channel low level in but also the main amplifier as well.

 

[The Chukker]

Sounds like your IC's are short. I'd wing it without balanced cables/converters, just use coaxial RCA's...
If you end up needing some balanced cables, I'll make them for you free of charge. But you have to come pick them up.He he he

Thanks for the advice regarding the cables, it really helps to know someone else has done something similar with the same reciever.

As for your offer...no thanks The plane ride back scarred me for life!!! Let me put it this way, the lady directly behind me was arrested for her conduct when we arrived back in Seattle. I don't think I can take another 5 and 1/2 hours of torture again even for free cables!!!

Take care,
Charles

 

[bigpapa]

Thanks for the advice regarding the cables, it really helps to know someone else has done something similar with the same reciever.

I haven't hooked up balanced to my AVR3805; I install balanced on projects. Sorry if I misled you.

I opine that you'll be fine (short runs of a few feet, close to power, same circuit), but it isn't guaranteed. If you're an odds man, I'd give it 80-20.

I'd try it without first, and if you have a little hiss, try one of the Jensen ISO-MAX units on one channel. I'd love to know if it made a difference, let me know.

Good luck, and I hope that beeyatch on the plane went to the pokey

 

[jcPanny]

Emotiva amp

Update on the Emotiva MPS-1 Amp from AV123.com.
You can now purchase the amp with any number of amp channels from 2-7 ($1300-2K). The two channel stereo amp modules are also available. They take a single amp slot and cost $299 each. 90 Watts/channel @ 8 ohms and 125 Watts/channel @ 4 ohms.

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=processors&product=51.1

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=processors&product=18.1

Also, this might solve your pre-amp dilema. Order the emotiva with 5-7 channels and you can pre-order the ultralight pre-amp for $99.
http://www.av123.com/specials.php

 

[The Chukker]

Also, this might solve your pre-amp dilema. Order the emotiva with 5-7 channels and you can pre-order the ultralight pre-amp for $99.

Thanks for the good find. But I think I am going to stand pat and play the wait and see game. The 3805 should do fine as a pre during the initial phase of the BD/HD DVD era, and when I do decide to buy it will be a more fully featured one than the LMC-1.