I can't get my sub figured out

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have a Velodyne 18 and just can't get it to sound good. I have moved it all over the room and no luck. I bought a feedback destroyer and went through the hole process of using the radio shack meter and then adjusting the EQ and I got it to sound better but I know I missing something. With the music playing I walk around the basement and in a couple places the sub sounds great but then when I get in the area where I sit it seems almost like the sub isn't even on. It's wierd. If I stand to the side of it along the wall where all my components are it sounds good. Then as I walk away it just seems to mute. Once I get more than 16 feet from it then the sound comes back. If I go in the laundry room it really rocks. LOL I would like to sit in my family room and get that sound. What do I do?

 

[jaxvon]

You obviously have room mode issues. As much as I hate to tell you this, you need to play with placement (more). Have you tried putting the sub at your listening position, playing some music, then crawling around the room to see where it sounds good? This is a very effective way to find a good spot for it.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I read that somewhere and I guess I need to give it a try. It's almost like the subs range is to long for my room?

 

[scotty11]

thats the right thing to do.

play something bass heavy,preferably a loop like a dvd intro

get on your knees and crawl around the room.
there will be spots where the bass sounds full and other spots weak

place the sub and then have someone tweak the phase while your sitting in the location you normally would.


make sure you have the reciever set bass out "sw"

 

[3db]

To clarify a lilttle

You obviously have room mode issues. As much as I hate to tell you this, you need to play with placement (more). Have you tried putting the sub at your listening position, playing some music, then crawling around the room to see where it sounds good? This is a very effective way to find a good spot for it.

Everything is relative to the listening position/localtion. Do what jaxvon suggests by putting the sub where the listening spot would be. Once you've done your room crawl and found where the bass is the loudest, thats the spot where you'll put the sub. Then You can do your room eq after that. good luck

 

[jaxvon]

Everything is relative to the listening position/localtion. Do what jaxvon suggests by putting the sub where the listening spot would be. Once you've done your room crawl and found where the bass is the loudest, thats the spot where you'll put the sub. Then You can do your room eq after that. good luck

To clarify a little, you don't just want the loudest bass, you want the best bass. Certain areas might make a certain frequency thunderously loud while other frequencies suffer from nulls. Listen for good bass, that means of an acceptable volume, balance, and a lack of the "one note" sound.

 

[BassHead]

I have a Velodyne 18 and just can't get it to sound good. I have moved it all over the room and no luck. I bought a feedback destroyer and went through the hole process of using the radio shack meter and then adjusting the EQ and I got it to sound better but I know I missing something. With the music playing I walk around the basement and in a couple places the sub sounds great but then when I get in the area where I sit it seems almost like the sub isn't even on. It's wierd. If I stand to the side of it along the wall where all my components are it sounds good. Then as I walk away it just seems to mute. Once I get more than 16 feet from it then the sound comes back. If I go in the laundry room it really rocks. LOL I would like to sit in my family room and get that sound. What do I do?

How is the amp ok,I have heard from other owners they had amp problems down the road when they had it brand new,Its funny because i just read an other thread yesterday about amp problems as well with this model,I hate to think what velodyne would want to fix it.,But since you have sound its just a matter of finding the key spot.You will find it sooner or later,Good luck

 

[j_garcia]

Concrete is one of the big factors. Because you have no sympathetic resonance in the floor or wall and because you get more bounce off the walls, you don't quite get all the "rumble". TOTAL room volume is a factor as well, as the sub has to move all that air to give you the "feel". Are you looking for kick or low end rumble? If it's low end, you might consider just getting some bass shakers and an amp. It really adds to the preception of low end bass, which is mostly vibration anyway If it's kick, well, I don't know how to help with that. It could be that the large driver size doesn't perform as well in the upper midrange. My 15" isn't as fast as my former 10" subs were in the upper midrange. Though it still sounds good, it isn't quite the same.

Give the sub placement thread a once over. It has a lot of info, though the parts I was reading were for dual sub, the method for locating a good spot for the sub is the same (a systematic version of the "crawl" method). Not exactly an exciting read, but some good info can be picked from it.

Unless you have a HUGE room, yes the waves are longer than most rooms for the low stuff. I don't recall the formula off hand, but I believe a 40Hz tone is already something like 30ft peak to peak, so 20Hz is going to be damn long.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm going to do the "crawl" this afternoon when I get off work. Does it matter what direction I face the sub? when I get it to the place where I sit? since I'm in a basement and the sub moves a lot of air I thought this might matter.

 

[scotty11]

I had a similar problem in my basement with my old sub.
concrete floors and squarish room my old sub just couldnt cut it.
id get distortion at higher levels and if i ran the sub lower you could barely hear the low end never mind feel it.

i upgraded to a double 12" sub from svs and placement became an issue only to tame the bass.

you would think with the 18" Vel. you wouldnt have such an issue but it happens with square rooms and concrete floors.

i would try the corners first for sub placement and if you have no luck email customer svc at velodyne.see what they have to say.

 

[BGLeduc]

Why don't you leave everything where it is, and take some measurements at locations that you think sound good, and see what you get?

While I understand the concept behind putting your sub where you sit and crawling around the room, that is really a subjective exercise, and very dependent on the music that you are playing.

Since you already have the meter, and I assume the knowledge to use it, I would take some measurements at spots that you feel are subjectively good and see how they measure.

Some users may find that objectively flat bass is not to their taste. Maybe the prime spot in the room, subjectively speaking, has a bit of a house curve to it, or perhaps some other non-linearity that you find pleasing. Armed with that knowledge, you may find some EQ settings that give you what you are looking for at the listenning position.

Brian

 

[3db]

Good point jaxvon

To clarify a little, you don't just want the loudest bass, you want the best bass. Certain areas might make a certain frequency thunderously loud while other frequencies suffer from nulls. Listen for good bass, that means of an acceptable volume, balance, and a lack of the "one note" sound.

There may be some points where the room interation with the sub is too strong to dial in.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have tried the sub in 3 different corners with pretty much the same result. I can easily get the sub to rattle your back teeth but that is not what I'm looking for. Every once in a while I find a DVD or a certain song that just finds all the sweet spots in my velodyne. The thing that bothers me the most is I have a $250 12" Cerwin Vega that on a consistant basis performs better than the Velodyne. Considering the Velodyne was $3000 it almost makes me sick. But when you do find the sweet spot in the Velodyne its unbelievable.

 

[Ron Temple]

Concrete floors suck...I was unhappy with pressurization in my modest family room, even though it opened up to another 5000^3. The 20-39+ sounded wonderful, but I went over to a friends house, same size room, PB10, sealed room, wooden floors, etc, it hit harder and pressurized better. Today I took mine over to his house and couldn't believe the difference. Mine made his sound little.

I've made some adjustments and mine sounds better in my room, but you can't compensate for everything. Some of us just have limitations.

 

[AudioSeer]

Also experimenting with listening position. Some parts of the room just won't sound good for bass.

 

[MACCA350]

What model is the Velo? I'm assuming this is one of the servo's possibly the HGS-18. If so you're comparing an extremely accurate/low distortion sub to the Cerwin Vega which is probably built for high SPL output at the expense of distortion. Distortion can be pleasant to the ears and will increase the loudness of a sound.

For example, take a 10Hz tone, with no distortion it is completely inaudible but it will rattle things and you may feel its presents. Played at the same level with some distortion you will hear and feel it. This is why many people say that servo subs don't play as loud as non-servo.

Here is an interview with Bruce Hall(president of Velodyne) where he speaks about this very thing

As others have said the way to find the best position is placing the sub in the listening position an crawling around with an SPL meter(or other equipment) to find the flattest response when playing Fq sweeps or Fq tones

cheers