I am new, a question.

[wrong]

I want to know if it is possible to skip the common brand of AV receivers and plug the speakers or HT directly to an more well known audiphile-type amp/DAC with 5.1/7.1. I only want audio using my asus DG sonar using the digital conxial output directly into the DAC and power up a 5.1 or 7.1 system and also a HDMI TV into the system. I don't need any video processing since i am not going to watch blueray at all.


If so what amp/DAC can do this around 500$ less range?

Currently i only have 4 speakers, I am inter mixing my speakers. I have 2 precision HD 25 for the back and 2 old large bookshelf like tynnoy speakers for the front (@least 15 years old but still sound very clearly).

I haven't got the subwoofer and central yet (i do have an infinitey 12" subwoofer but i decide it is way too large since i am setting this up in a room upstair)

or should i just buy a HTIB like onkyo s5500 ?

Very limited option since i am in canada and i don't want to spend too much either.

My other option was i was going to buy several DAC and connect directly from a better sound card on pc, hopefully they can move speaker and not blow it up.


I also would like that DAC have front out for headphone as well if possible.

 

[FirstReflection]

Hi there.

Well you've managed to make me very confused

Why do you want to avoid using a good receiver? Especially considering it is the easiest, best and most effective way to do everything you say you want to do?

Your Asus Xonar DG sound card does not have a digital coaxial output, so far as I can tell. I'm just going by what it says online, but it appears to have 5.1 analogue line level outputs, plus an optical S/PDIF TOSLink output. That TOSLink optical output is your digital output from that particular sound card, which is perfectly fine. There's no coaxial digital audio output though.

Next, a simple DAC would not be enough to make sense of that optical digital output - unless you limit your output from your computer to 2-channel PCM only. You clearly want to use Dolby Digital and DTS surround sound, so this is not a good option. You need something with a Dolby Digital and DTS decoder so that you can take the optical output from your Asus Xonar DG sound card, send out the 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS signal, and have that other device do the decoding and digital-to-analogue conversion so that the signal can then be sent to an amplifier, and then to your speakers. The easiest way to do all of this - by far, and especially within your budget - is to use a good receiver. A good receiver from Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha or Pioneer can provide you with an optical digital audio input, the necessary Dolby Digital and DTS decoders, DACs that are every bit as good as any outboard "audiophile" DAC, the necessary 5 or 7 channels of amlification, plus the necessary processing - such as Dolby Pro Logic IIx - to turn the 5.1 signal coming from your Asus Xonar DG sound card into a 7.1 playback experience.

So, yeah, I feel as though you must have heard from someone or read somewhere that an A/V receiver is somehow "inferior" in some way. I've no idea where you would have heard that. There's nothing that a separate, outboard DAC can do any better than a good A/V receiver. And an outboard DAC CANNOT do everything that you need and want in this case. A good A/V receiver can. So that is clearly your best solution here.

If you are happy with the speakers that you have already, you can buy just a good A/V receiver. If you want to get all new speakers, you could opt for a HTiB, like you suggested, or get an A/V receiver plus a new speaker package.

Since you're in Canada (I am too ) there aren't quite as many good online deals as there are in the USA, but you can check FutureShop, Best Buy, Visions, electronicsforless.ca and HD.ca for current prices.

I tend to favor Denon, Marantz and Onkyo - mainly because I prefer Audyssey for auto-setup and EQ vs. Yamaha's YPAO or Pioneer's MCACC. But Yamaha and Pioneer have very good receiver offerings as well.

Anyways, that's your best solution. You need an optical input, Dolby Digital and DTS decoders, DACs, Dolby Pro Logic IIx processing (if you want to expand 5.1 to 7.1), a subwoofer output, and amplification for all 5 or 7 speakers. A good A/V receiver gives you all of that within your budget, plus HDMI switching if you want it. I've no idea why you wanted to avoid a receiver, but if that desire was based on something someone said or something you read somewhere, all I can say is that that was bad advice

Best of luck!

 

[BMXTRIX]

The above recommendation is dead on. Most often people try to avoid the A/V receiver because they think it is (A) either to complicated or (B) they can save some money by going with something less.

It's important to realize that A/V receivers sell in the millions every year, while stand alone DACs sell in the thousands - there are real economies of scale there, and most receiver manufacturers (Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo) have budgets which allow them to invest into quality product and bring pricing way down on what they offer. This means you get far more bang for the buck in these products.

Meanwhile, a stand alone DAC which sells just a few thousand units a year must still cover all of their manufacturing costs along with product development and profits, so you end up spending far more on the product, but getting a product which really just costs more... it isn't better.

Similar statements have been made about people buying a stereo receiver vs. a surround receiver and it just isn't typically played out on real world measurements.

 

[wrong]

I see thanks,

I have the thinking of a DAC amp is better then AV receiver because i remember talking to an audio saleman before and he mention AV receiver tend to use cheaper and lower quality stuff because they mix audio and video processing together for their mid-range AV receiver but DAC amp use higher quality material regardless since they can use higher quality stuff for one single purpose as long they fall around the mid-range budget.

It was a long while so i don't remember clearly.

I always thought SPIF is conxonial digital output because they look the same to me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I see thanks,

I have the thinking of a DAC amp is better then AV receiver because i remember talking to an audio saleman before ....

A question you need to ask of yourself: does that salesman benefit from what he said to you? If yes, be careful.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I see thanks,

I have the thinking of a DAC amp is better then AV receiver because i remember talking to an audio saleman before and he mention AV receiver tend to use cheaper and lower quality stuff because they mix audio and video processing together for their mid-range AV receiver but DAC amp use higher quality material regardless since they can use higher quality stuff for one single purpose as long they fall around the mid-range budget.

It was a long while so i don't remember clearly.

I always thought SPIF is conxonial digital output because they look the same to me.

When explained the way he said it, it DOES sound reasonable.

But it isn't accurate.

As I explained, economies of scale allow them to make the more popular products for far less money because they make so many more of them. You get a LOT more product than if you buy little tweaky pieces from less heard of manufacturers.

Worth learning some A/V terms as well:
COAXIAL (not conxonial) - Is a type of cable. It can be used for digital or analog formats for both video and audio and can do a heck of a lot of other things as well.
OPTICAL - Generally this is the abbeviated term for a fiber optical cable. Once again, a cable.

S/PDIF is the Sony/Phillips Digital InterFace digital audio connection
TOSLINK is the TOShiba LINK digital audio connection.

Generally, S/PDIF is carried over a coaxial cable.
Generally, TOSLINK is carried over a fiber optical cable.

Most A/V products can handle both S/PDIF and TOSLINK on either coaxial or optical digital audio connections so they can be interchanged freely.

You will be very happy with any quality brand mid-line A/V receiver and it will give you the most long term flexibility and reliability.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Think about the components and their measurements.

Speakers have measurements. Amps have measurements. Preamps, pre-pros, AVRs all have measurements.

Speakers are more difficult to interpret. They have a lot more measurements to decipher. And even when you have all their measurements, they still don't give you the complete picture of how the speakers will actually sound.

But electronics are a lot more simple. Even though people try to make them more complex than they really are, they are a lot more simple compared to speakers. They are engineered to do one thing - amplify the original recording without distorting or "coloring" the sound. And their performance can be judged by the measurements.

SNR - this is the "noise". Less noise means cleaner sound. The higher the number, the better. Any SNR of -100dB or better is great and is inaudible. So a component with a SNR of -100dB is just as good as a component with a SNR of -130dB because we can't hear the difference.

Crosstalk - amount of signal that cross from one channel to another. Again, the "bigger" the number, the better. So a crosstalk of -100dB is better than a crosstalk of -60dB. But any crosstalk of -70dB or better is considered inaudible. So a component with a crosstalk of -70dB is just as good as a component with a crosstalk of -100dB because we can't hear the difference.

THD - distortion. The lower the better. But any THD less than 0.1% is inaudible. So a THD of 0.1% is just as good as a THD of 0.001% because we can't tell the difference.

Frequency response - how flat and accurate the component is from 20Hz-20kHz. Anything 20Hz-20kHz +/- 0.5dB is FLAT and is as good as +/- 0.00dB.

These are just 4 basic measurements of an Amp, Preamp, Pre-pro, or AVR.

If these components measure the same, they will sound the same. Or they are accurate that they don't color the sound.

If you look at the measurements and compare AVR vs Pre-Pro vs Amp vs Preamp, you will see most of these components measure just as well as one another. The key is having enough power for your need.

If your speakers are diffult to drive (2 - 4 ohms, Sensitivity < 85dB) and your room is large (> 20' x 20'), and you play 85dB volume on average (but peak at 105dB for a few seconds of dynamic swing), you may require a more powerful amp than 100wpc.

But bottom line, a $500 AVR will sound just as good as a $1000 combo of amp + DAC + pre-pro, etc. Why? Because they meaure the same.

Thats' my take.

 

[Enki]

sounds good sounds good

 

[wrong]

Think about the components and their measurements.

Speakers have measurements. Amps have measurements. Preamps, pre-pros, AVRs all have measurements.

Speakers are more difficult to interpret. They have a lot more measurements to decipher. And even when you have all their measurements, they still don't give you the complete picture of how the speakers will actually sound.

But electronics are a lot more simple. Even though people try to make them more complex than they really are, they are a lot more simple compared to speakers. They are engineered to do one thing - amplify the original recording without distorting or "coloring" the sound. And their performance can be judged by the measurements.

SNR - this is the "noise". Less noise means cleaner sound. The higher the number, the better. Any SNR of -100dB or better is great and is inaudible. So a component with a SNR of -100dB is just as good as a component with a SNR of -130dB because we can't hear the difference.

Crosstalk - amount of signal that cross from one channel to another. Again, the "bigger" the number, the better. So a crosstalk of -100dB is better than a crosstalk of -60dB. But any crosstalk of -70dB or better is considered inaudible. So a component with a crosstalk of -70dB is just as good as a component with a crosstalk of -100dB because we can't hear the difference.

THD - distortion. The lower the better. But any THD less than 0.1% is inaudible. So a THD of 0.1% is just as good as a THD of 0.001% because we can't tell the difference.

Frequency response - how flat and accurate the component is from 20Hz-20kHz. Anything 20Hz-20kHz +/- 0.5dB is FLAT and is as good as +/- 0.00dB.

These are just 4 basic measurements of an Amp, Preamp, Pre-pro, or AVR.

If these components measure the same, they will sound the same. Or they are accurate that they don't color the sound.

If you look at the measurements and compare AVR vs Pre-Pro vs Amp vs Preamp, you will see most of these components measure just as well as one another. The key is having enough power for your need.

If your speakers are diffult to drive (2 - 4 ohms, Sensitivity < 85dB) and your room is large (> 20' x 20'), and you play 85dB volume on average (but peak at 105dB for a few seconds of dynamic swing), you may require a more powerful amp than 100wpc.

But bottom line, a $500 AVR will sound just as good as a $1000 combo of amp + DAC + pre-pro, etc. Why? Because they meaure the same.

Thats' my take.

I see. That explain a lot thanks.