HTPC setup questions

[Sol Invictus]

I've built an HTPC with a focus in playing/streaming music to my sound system and I'm wondering which setup is the best.

1. Using a dedicated sound card and an optical cable to transfer the music directly to the sound system.

2. Streaming the music locally to a DLNA device (Xbox 360 in this case) that is connected to the sound system, so no cable connectors is used.

I'm wondering if there is a difference between the 2 options because streaming would be easier for me. Does setup 1 provide better quality?

 

[jinjuku]

I've built an HTPC with a focus in playing/streaming music to my sound system and I'm wondering which setup is the best.

1. Using a dedicated sound card and an optical cable to transfer the music directly to the sound system.

2. Streaming the music locally to a DLNA device (Xbox 360 in this case) that is connected to the sound system, so no cable connectors is used.

I'm wondering if there is a difference between the 2 options because streaming would be easier for me. Does setup 1 provide better quality?

Please list the rest of your setup both audio and computer (mainboard primarily).

 

[MDS]

I've built an HTPC with a focus in playing/streaming music to my sound system and I'm wondering which setup is the best.

1. Using a dedicated sound card and an optical cable to transfer the music directly to the sound system.

2. Streaming the music locally to a DLNA device (Xbox 360 in this case) that is connected to the sound system, so no cable connectors is used.

I'm wondering if there is a difference between the 2 options because streaming would be easier for me. Does setup 1 provide better quality?

In both cases you are sending the audio in a digital format so there will be no difference.

The only caveat is that the streaming option adds the overhead of the DLNA protocol and if streaming wirelessly the possible latency of wi-fi. If the wi-fi signal is weak or the xbox is slow in processing the data it receives via DLNA and can't maintain the required bit rate then there is the possibility of drop outs or pauses in playback - but it rarely happens in practice.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Please list the rest of your setup both audio and computer (mainboard primarily).

HTPC

• Motherboard - ASUS P8H67-M PRO
• CPU - i3-2105
• RAM - 8GB, 1333 MHz
• Sound Card - ESI Juli@

Sounds System

• Amplifier - Outlaw RR2150 Stereo Receiver
• DAC - Cambridge Audio DacMagic
• Speakers - PSB Image T6

In both cases you are sending the audio in a digital format so there will be no difference.

The only caveat is that the streaming option adds the overhead of the DLNA protocol and if streaming wirelessly the possible latency of wi-fi. If the wi-fi signal is weak or the xbox is slow in processing the data it receives via DLNA and can't maintain the required bit rate then there is the possibility of drop outs or pauses in playback - but it rarely happens in practice.

Originally I thought that since the audio sample is digital, there would be no difference in quality no matter how I send it. However I tried doing both and it seems to me that streaming results in a slightly compressed sound compared to using the sound card, although the difference is minimal. I'm not sure if this is just a placebo effect or not.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Xbox doesn't support lossless music so your dlna server probably compressing it before streaming

I'm not sure why would you need external DAC in your setup then you already have excellent professional audio interface..

To get best results You'd probably want to a) use hi-res lossless or uncompressed source b) avoid xbox 360 in this mix all together

 

[Sol Invictus]

Xbox doesn't support lossless music so your dlna server probably compressing it before streaming

I'm not sure why would you need external DAC in your setup then you already have excellent professional audio interface..

To get best results You'd probably want to a) use hi-res lossless or uncompressed source b) avoid xbox 360 in this mix all together

I'm using uncompressed .wav rips from CD's as source. In both cases I use an S/PDIF cable that is connected to the DAC which at its turn is connected to the amplifier and then to the speakers.

To reiterate:

In setup 1, the computer is next to the DAC and is connected to it through S/PDIF.

In setup 2, the Xbox 360 is next to the DAC and is connected the same way, but in this case the computer acts as a server that streams to the Xbox. This option would be much more effective for me.

Do you have a source where it say's that the Xbox 360 doesn't allow lossless music?

The main confusion I have is why there would be a difference between the two setups if I'm using a digital file. Technically the same file should be sent to both platforms without any loss in information.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Do you have a source where it say's that the Xbox 360 doesn't allow lossless music?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/906660
But uncompressed PCM (as in WAV files) is supported. I think that lossless WMA files are also supported (but who cares)

FLAC and APE formats are definitely not supported

I'm still really curious for the need of external dac - Cambridge Audio DacMagic

A) As I said before - you have excellent sound card - I'd trust it and output the audio analog to your stereo receiver - it's extremely capable
B) Your Outlaw receiver has built-in capability to play straight from pc by usb cable
C) Optical spd/if from motherboard to dac is also possible, again without any quality loss - but I'm not sure why?

Any option will provide same excellent sound quality, but I'd go with option A since analog run are not limited to 15ft like USB is


Now to your main question - why streaming uncompressed WAV to Xbox 360 using Windows Media Center end by "possibly" being compressed - we'd probably never know since Microsoft is not going to tell us

 

[sholling]

The Realtek ALC 892 on that motherboard will do just fine for audio and I don't see any reason for adding a sound card - especially if you're going to use optical to the DAC. The only reason for going with an add-in card is if you want to use the card's DACs. I'm not up on the full capability of the Outlaw receiver but I'm shocked that they did not include an optical input.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The Realtek ALC 892 on that motherboard will do just fine for audio and I don't see any reason for adding a sound card - especially if you're going to use optical to the DAC. I'm not up on the full capability of the Outlaw receiver but I'm shocked that they did not include an optical input.

Some onboard sound actually decent, some not - my Realtek on Asrock Extreme4 board is terrible and implemented horribly
As in regarding lack of digital ins (other than USB) - i'm puzzled as well

 

[sholling]

Some onboard sound actually decent, some not - my Realtek on Asrock Extreme4 board is terrible and implemented horribly
As in regarding lack of digital ins (other than USB) - i'm puzzled as well

I'm surprised but I'm going over HDMI without any complaints. Are you going over S/PDIF or HDMI or analog?

 

[Sol Invictus]

I see, that makes sense.

The Realtek ALC 892 on that motherboard will do just fine for audio and I don't see any reason for adding a sound card - especially if you're going to use optical to the DAC. The only reason for going with an add-in card is if you want to use the card's DACs. I'm not up on the full capability of the Outlaw receiver but I'm shocked that they did not include an optical input.

So there is no difference in using the sound card over the Realtek ALC 892 in terms of audio quality? If that's the case I might as well switch to USB.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I just realized that using USB is worse than S/PDIF for audio transfers, my bad. My question still stands though, would using the Realtek ALC 892 with S/PDIF be just as good as using the sound card.

I'm just confused because you said that using Realtek ALC 892 would be just as fine. By that do you mean that the quality is the same?

 

[sholling]

I see, that makes sense.



So there is no difference in using the sound card over the Realtek ALC 892 in terms of audio quality? If that's the case I might as well switch to USB.

I just don't see why there would be. You're not using the sound card or the motherboard's DAC and amplifier which is where is where on-motherboard audio often sucks. It's sending ones and zeros to the outboard DAC.

As I said if you were going with an analog connection I would expect a good sound card to do a better job because of the quality of the amplifier section but as I understand it you're just sending ones and zeros. As for the USB connection I have absolutely no clue how that's being used other than possibly just accessing the HTPC as an expensive USB hard drive - but I don't really know for sure.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'm surprised but I'm going over HDMI without any complaints. Are you going over S/PDIF or HDMI or analog?

I tried analog to my jbl's - it was terrible constant hiss and noises then hd was accessed - a disaster. I didn't tried sdpif or hdmi off video card, but I assume both would be fine, but alas I don't have dac nearby and jbl's only accept analog signal

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I just realized that using USB is worse than S/PDIF for audio transfers, my bad. My question still stands though, would using the Realtek ALC 892 with S/PDIF be just as good as using the sound card.

I'm just confused because you said that using Realtek ALC 892 would be just as fine. By that do you mean that the quality is the same?

Expect physical and electrical limitation of USB format as for length of USB cable, I can't see for the life in me why USB to outboard dac would be worse than spd/if

Yes, there are large amount of usb outboard DACs and they'll work just fine. Same would go for usb input in that Outlaw receiver.

What is the best option - honestly any of them should perform the same, except for connect analog to onboard audio

 

[jinjuku]

Still trying to find out why you have a Cambridge DAC Magic and the ESI sound card...

As an example my audio card is the EMU 1212M going balanced out (TRS <> XLR) to my amp.

You don't need both if the only source is your computer.

XBOX should be a front end / extender for Windows Media Center on your computer. If it were me I would simplify the setup.

 

[jinjuku]

I'm surprised but I'm going over HDMI without any complaints. Are you going over S/PDIF or HDMI or analog?

HDMI is digital. BSA is using the analog section of the mainboard and it is picking up EMI/RFI from the PSU.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

HDMI is digital. BSA is using the analog section of the mainboard and it is picking up EMI/RFI from the PSU.

Correct, my solution was using my old SB Audigy2 zs soundcard with I guess is properly electrically isolated, thou it's a pci card.
I also ordered UCA202, but the first one was bad and I still haven't tried the replacement...

 

[bikemig]

I've built an HTPC with a focus in playing/streaming music to my sound system and I'm wondering which setup is the best.

1. Using a dedicated sound card and an optical cable to transfer the music directly to the sound system.

2. Streaming the music locally to a DLNA device (Xbox 360 in this case) that is connected to the sound system, so no cable connectors is used.

I'm wondering if there is a difference between the 2 options because streaming would be easier for me. Does setup 1 provide better quality?

If you want to stream music, you want a bit perfect output to your cambridge dac. I have no idea if an xbox does this. An AE express does but it is limited to redbook; so does a SB touch and it will do hi res files (up to 24/96). If you want to go with (1), then I'd certainly try out the usb input on the outlaw stereo receiver and see what you think.

Edit: I'm a little late to this but it seems that streaming is your preferred option so I would be concerned about a bit perfect output to your outlaw 2150 stereo receiver.

 

[Hi Ho]

The Xbox does support lossless but only in the form of .WAV and .WMA Lossless. I use the Xbox to play my media library which is encoded in WMA Lossless and it works great.