HTIB or Starter Home Theater Setup?

[rbrychckn]

I'm looking to setup a new HT system - and am entirely noob at this. My current TV/DVD is modest (24" Sony Wega Flat-Tube) and a Sony DVD (don't recall which), so I'm not really married to anything like having HDTV capability and that sort of thing. I love good sound and unfortunately have a discerning ear (damn Suzuki method) and would be using this for 50% music (piped in from a computer)/50% movies.

The problem is the room in my apartment is about 14' by 15' I'd say, and I don't see myself moving into that much bigger a TV room in the next few years. I know I'll want to get that "dream" system down the line. Plus, I'll admit I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to electronics (I've built all of my desktop computers from scratch in the last 10 years using the best parts). I have a similar philosophy with my future HT system and so a component system (separate receiver, DVD, speaker set) would tickle my fancy, but to do that at an entry level seems to be above $1000 (receiver and 5.1 speakers - a Pioneer 1015tx/Yamaha 1500 and Axiom M22ti, V100, M2i is about $1350-1450 street today). The other option is a 'throw away' HTIB, which I know even less about.

I need your Audiophile expertise. Here is what I'm looking for:
- Receiver/HTIB that I can input (ideally digitally) from a computer
- 5.1 setup - I think 7.1 would look a bit overboard in this relatively small space. For an estimation, the couch is probably about 6' away from the TV at most. I'm even fine with a reasonable 3.1 setup (L/C/R and sub) for now, and adding a crappy set of speakers in the back
- Different zones would be a huge plus but not required (get a set of OK speakers and stick them in the bedroom, since I have no music source there) or some way to pipe sound out to the bedroom without having to have another system.

So should I start accumulating components for a good system now? like with the Axioms (which I've heard and like). Or should I get an HTIB that I won't feel heartache "tossing" (likely selling off for little) in, say, 2 years? I've seen some other ideas: buying a really good receiver ($1000+) and a L/R and Center. Then upgrade later with the surround stuff, sub, and amp (potentially). I'm curious to know what you all think is a 'smart' way and a cost-saving way of gradually getting to that dream setup. Thanks

 

[malvado78]

What is your price range?

 

[buckyg4]

out of curiosity how are you going to pipe the music from your computer? do you have a decent sound card? if you go digital to a low end receiver you are not going to be happy with the built in D/A conversion.

 

[Daz3d&Confus3d]

Well....if you're anything like me you may want to do it slowly, piece by piece. I've also built my own pc's for a number of years now (5 or 6 of them I forget). And I like the upgrade method. By the MoBo, Processor, and Ram...then down the line.....upgrade the vc, sc, hd's, etc.

I've recently taken the same approach, 1st bought the speakers I had to have....just the fronts and center channel.....then a bit later, bought the receiver and dvd player....next I'll buy the sub and then new surrounds and lastly, a dvd burner!

It really depends on what you can be satisfied with....Im the type that likes decent stuff and Id rather wait and get what I really want than settle for something I wont be satisfied with.

My two cents anyways!

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Go ahead and build piece by piece. Loudspeakers will cost you the most, but will also last for years and years and years. Subwoofers seem to be the only "speaker" that is evolving at any noticable rate (passive to powered, to digital amp, to servo).

 

[jcPanny]

Low and Mid level options

component system (separate receiver, DVD, speaker set) would tickle my fancy, but to do that at an entry level seems to be above $1000 (receiver and 5.1 speakers - a Pioneer 1015tx/Yamaha 1500 and Axiom M22ti, V100, M2i is about $1350-1450 street today). The other option is a 'throw away' HTIB, which I know even less about.

rbrychckn,
You selected some good mid level components for your home theater. I was in a similar market and purchased Yamaha HTR-5860 receiver and Athena Audition series speakers. I like the Axioms you selected and will eventually upgrade to those.

I would strongly reccomend that you avoid a HTIB system. Here is a good entry level HTIB beater option:
Yamaha HTR-5840 or Onkyo 502 ($200)
Athena Micra 6 or Athena .5 speakers ($200 - 300)

For you mid level Axiom system, consider purchasing the front and center channels first and adding surrounds later. Also, don't forget about the subwoofer. Several on the forum rave about entry level subs like the Cadence X-Sub for <$200, but for a real mid level sub, save for an SVS or HSU in the $400-600 range.

 

[kay]

Definitely NOT HTIB - you'll not regret it I had stereo-only for a while, and having good, decent speakers makes a world of difference even for movies. Speakers will be with you for years, so just get a nice pair and a decent mid-range receiver and add more as you have cash to spare.

 

[rbrychckn]

What is your price range?

I'd really like to keep it around $1000, with $1400 being the absolute most I can rationalize. I'm flexible in the sense that I'll probably be willing to put down more if I can be reasonably sure it will last over time.

out of curiosity how are you going to pipe the music from your computer?

I currently have a Philips Acoustic Edge 5.1 with a SPDIF Digital Out - which is quite servicable. I'm planning to get a M-Audio Revolution 7.1 that has a SPDIF digital out as well. I'm not familiar with D/A converters, but how good a converter would you need in order to get reasonably reproduced sound?

For the rest of you all, thanks for the comments - I particularly appreciate the subwoofer progress comment - it perhaps makes sense then to buy a true entry level one, and dish out the real money on a up-to-date sub near completing the entire system.

It seems clear HTIB has little support from you guys. My question to you, though, is... I know you can hear a difference in speaker quality if you sit there in the shop and hear it in their custom rooms, but once you stick it in a smaller room, is there that significant a difference between a 'decent' HTIB and an entry level component system? I suppose you could argue the merits of picking a $1000 component system today that even sounds barely better than a HTIB at $500, because some of those components will last for years (like the speakers) but an HTIB will need to be tossed away. However, my fear is over-doing the system when I know I won't be in any grandiose, big TV viewing room for the next few years. Any of you have mid-level systems in small rooms like this?

I should also note that while I can appreciate the piece-by-piece philosophy, I haven't heard any explicit reasons for not going with HTIB. Is it durability? is it quality? is it the fact that you can't be flexible with speakers, speaker wire, etc etc?

 

[MDS]

I currently have a Philips Acoustic Edge 5.1 with a SPDIF Digital Out - which is quite servicable. I'm planning to get a M-Audio Revolution 7.1 that has a SPDIF digital out as well. I'm not familiar with D/A converters, but how good a converter would you need in order to get reasonably reproduced sound?

Either of those sound cards will work just fine. So would a SoundBlaster, Turtle Beach, or even the Analog Devices SoundMax that is integrated on many motherboards. You DO NOT need to buy an external DAC. Use a coax or optical cable direct from the sound card to the receiver and you are good to go.

 

[Ron Temple]

In December for Xmas I was given an Onkyo770. HT was on my wishlist, but I had too many other priorities. The 770 was good enough that I became extremely enthusiastic about home audio again. It's entry level good for HT if you don't have any preconceived tastes. I started getting into multichannel music after a few months and felt something was lacking. So I started swapping out speakers after 3 months until I finally put together a budget HT system. It's miles better and didn't cost an arm and a leg.

If you really like mid level componets now, you will find the Onkyo or Yamaha HTIB speakers a disappointment. Save yourself the $4-500 and build it a piece at a time.

 

[rbrychckn]

You DO NOT need to buy an external DAC. Use a coax or optical cable direct from the sound card to the receiver and you are good to go.

My understanding of buckyg4's original post is that even if you run a coax or optical cable direct from the sound card to the receiver, the built-in DAC in the receiver will still distort the digital signal...? Does a digital in signal need to be flipped to analog before it gets to the speakers? If so, I'm guessing this is the process buckyg4 is talking about and where an entry-level vs mid-level receiver might make a difference...?

 

[MDS]

Yep, that is the process and no it won't distort the signal. If it did, then you wouldn't want to use a digital connection for your dvd player or cable box either. The difference between entry level and mid level receivers is power, number of inputs, and most importantly price. Your typical $300 'entry level' receiver has 24/192 kHz dacs from either Cirrus, Analog Devices, Wolfson, or Burr Brown. You will be hard pressed to tell the difference between them.

 

[abboudc]

HTIB contain tiny, crappy speakers. That's the reason to stay away from them.

If space is your PRIMARY concern, then you can go small, but you'll be sacrificing sound quality. There are some "good for their size" speakers out there like Gallos, but if space isn't your primary concern, go bigger.

Small bookshelf size speakers will sound much better. Go as big as your wife lets you

You'll most likely not be able to tell a difference between analog and digital (especially if we're talking mp3 and not lossless). Digital is just one less cable.

 

[rbrychckn]

The difference between entry level and mid level receivers 
is power, number of inputs, and most importantly price.

My guess is the requirements for power are probably proportional to the room size. I'd imagine even someone who needs to get their eardrums blown out could do it with relatively minimal wattage.. ?

Go as big as your wife lets you

Bahahahaha.... hilarious. I'm not married, but I appreciate what you're saying

You'll most likely not be able to tell a difference between 
analog and digital (especially if we're talking mp3 and not lossless). 
Digital is just one less cable.

Is there any benefit of piping in digitally then? Is it worth taking up a digital in? Most of my mp3s are 320 kbps. Think the difference is discernable?

 

[jaxvon]

There's definitely a reason to pipe in digitally. Most computers are full of noise and have crappy D/A converters. You paid some fat cash for nice DACs in your receiver, why not use them?

 

[abboudc]

Is there any benefit of piping in digitally then? Is it worth taking up a digital in? Most of my mp3s are 320 kbps. Think the difference is discernable?

How far is your PC from your stereo? I'm guessing it's very close. I honestly don't think you'll be able to tell a difference.

That said, i'd go digital if you can spare the input. It's just less wires.

 

[Sheep]

This is just a sugestion, but the Logitech Z5500's would be a nice start. For around 350 CAD, they would kill any HTIB and work well with you computer as they are designed for it. They also feature copper speaker wire, so you can change it out with some nice 14 ga.(they updated it from the version giving to audioholics)

Review http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/LogitechZ-5500Speakers01.php

Other then that, I recommend a Yamaha HITB as they use nicer receivers then other HTIB's, and you can upgrade the speakers and such down the road.

Sheep

 

[jcPanny]

I should also note that while I can appreciate the piece-by-piece philosophy, I haven't heard any explicit reasons for not going with HTIB. Is it durability? is it quality? is it the fact that you can't be flexible with speakers, speaker wire, etc etc?

Yes, Yes, and Yes. Most HTIBs have a minimal number of input and outputs and minize your ability to upgrade. The small cube speakers included with most are of inferior quality. Most also use a "digital" type amplifier to minimize the size. This type of amp is not found in any mid or high end audio gear.

A nice bookshelf system will work well in your room, while floorstanding speakers would be overkill. Keep in mind that a good set of speakers will outlast any electronics including your recever and computer setup.

 

[MDS]

When we talk about a HTIB, I think we need to distinguish between the 'all in one' systems vs a set of components that come in a box. For example, the Onkyo HTIB is really separate components and the receiver is very similar to the 501 which is their entry level receiver. The dvd player is also similar to the SP301, which is an ~150 dvd player. The weak link is the speakers - IMO they are big and bulky and not so aestheticallly pleasing (don't know about performance, but others have said they are decent).

A system like that will offer some upgradeabilty because you can get better speakers over time and also upgrade the dvd player and/or receiver as time permits. In contrast, the all in one type systems - especially those that integrate the dvd player into the receiver - should be avoided at all costs.

 

[Sheep]

When we talk about a HTIB, I think we need to distinguish between the 'all in one' systems vs a set of components that come in a box. For example, the Onkyo HTIB is really separate components and the receiver is very similar to the 501 which is their entry level receiver. The dvd player is also similar to the SP301, which is an ~150 dvd player. The weak link is the speakers - IMO they are big and bulky and not so aestheticallly pleasing (don't know about performance, but others have said they are decent).

A system like that will offer some upgradeabilty because you can get better speakers over time and also upgrade the dvd player and/or receiver as time permits. In contrast, the all in one type systems - especially those that integrate the dvd player into the receiver - should be avoided at all costs.

The yamaha setups are the same, cept the subwoofers in those are way better then any other HTIB I have seen.

Sheep