HSU VTF-2/STF-3 vs. Paradigm PDR 12

Takeereasy

Takeereasy

Audioholic General
I have been looking forward to auditioning some HSU subs and Bic speakers for a long time. Friday I got my chance after work. I brought a Paradigm PDR 12 from a friend along for comparison and I brought a pair of My PSB 2B's along as well. That's one more feature bookshelfs have over Floorstanders, you can throw them in the car and go for a drive ;) .
Lucky me, these guys sell PSB and I felt silly when the saleman told me this, but they also sell Marantz, and that is what I use as a receiver. So my HT is well represented in this review.


First things first, I couldn't wait to hook up the PDR and try it out next to the VTF-2 so that's what I asked to do first. I can't describe how badly the PDR got walked on by the HSU's. To be fair the VTF-2 I had it up against first is about $100 more and the STF-3 it was up against second is about $300 more but both HSU subs owned this Paradigm offering. The HSU subs were louder, had more force, seemed tighter, and I'm pretty sure they played lower than the Paradigm. There was no type of comparison to be had at all. It was like bringing a knife to a gun fight it was such a bad butt kicking. I have heard the Paradigm PW2200 and it will give the STF-3 a real run for the money, but for some reason I think I liked the STF-3 better. That comparison is based on memory only. I did not have a PW2200 to bring along and try out, but I have heard it before. I think the STF3 has no competitors in the Paradigm PDR or PS line, and I'd take a VTF-2 over a PW2100 any day of the week. I am really pumped up about HSU, but now I'm afraid they may be overkill for my tiny HT room!

I then auditioned the Bic 62 center and bookshelfs. What can I say. Believe the hype. They are very very nice speakers indeed. Too bad they don't retail as cheap up here as they do there. Try a sticker price of $250 a pair. If I didn't know what you guys could get them for though I'd say they were a steal. How do they sell the bookshelfs for $100 US a pair? Really, it baffles me. They sound fantastic and these are are big, heavy, and well built speakers. I know that if I haggled then I'd pay about $200-$225 incl taxes. These speakers will be in a secondary HT for me one day. They are that good. What is really scary is that Bic center. Fan-friggin-tastic. I like it as much as my PSB 8C. The 8C is only 5.5" driver wise but to me the sound of the BIC and it are very similar in volume and quality. There are some tonal differences and the PSB has a better build quality, but the PSB also has an MSRP of triple or more than the BIC sells for in the States! If I was blindfolded I'd probably pick my PSB as a winner, but if someone asks me if the PSB is worth 3 times as much, the answer is a resounding no. I like my 2B's more than those Bic 62 Bookshelfs, and I got them for $319 for the first pair, and $300 for the second pair, taxes in, so the price isn't too far off the Bics. I then auditioned the Bic sub. It is not the same model # as you guys get in the states. The specs and appereance are the same but they have added a 5 at the end of the #. The Bic performed very comparably to the Paradigm IMO and is about $100-$150 less! How in the heck does this company do it? $400 for a sub that really will hit 25hz with some damn good authority?

Anyway, it was a good trip for me, and it answered most of my questions. I have a phone call to make to another company before my decision is final, but now I know a lot more than I did on Thursday.

On a sidenote I was treted not too poorly, but not too warmly either. If I would have received the service I was looking for I might have walked out of there a little lighter in the pockets, but as it was my dislike for the shop has tempered my eagerness just enough to allow me some rational thought.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Doesn't surprise me. Being a former Paradigm owner for years, and having heard most of their stuff over the years, I'd say subs are Paradigm's weak point, and most of their subs below the 2200 aren't that impressive. The 2200 is pretty nice, but because there are manufacturers like SVS and HSU that offer similar performance for less $$, it would make it tough for me to justify a 2200 at MSRP.
 
Takeereasy

Takeereasy

Audioholic General
I agree Garcia, but if the Pw2200 and the STF-3 were identical in pricing I think the choice would be harder. The 2200 is better looking than the STF line IMO, and that 2200 really can shake a whole room. I think that Paradigms PS line is pretty good but not really 100% for me, and I really don't like the PW series 10" sub. It costs more than a PS1200 and really didn't seem even as good as a PDR-12 to me. I asked the owner at my local dealer and he said that he thought that the PW2100 was a case of a lot of great ideas and good intentions went wrong. The way he described it to me made it sound like Paradigm brought that sub out to meet customer demand and that he wasn't happy with it either. He told me that he didn't like that sub knowing that I was looking to purchase a sub and that I'd be demoing that model later. I don't know if that conversation was what soured me on this sub but I've got to say, I was pretty underwhelmed with it.

I do think that I've made my decision. I'm going to go against my own logic and order a cadence xsub and have it delivered. Of course I'm going to check today and see if there is a local retailer or if they have a Canadian distributer. I know they ship up here and the cost is $43 US via UPS. I just want to avoid the $64 brokerage fee. I am making my decision based on some answers a Cadence owner gave me Mainly regarding the amp section and construction of the unit. I'm still hoping to get it for under $400 but it might cost as much as $450. That's still $30 cheaper than the cost of the Bic sub locally so I'm willing to risk it. My purchase is contingent on there being a repair facility on this side of the border.
 
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O

Ohmage

Audioholic Intern
j_garcia said:
Doesn't surprise me. Being a former Paradigm owner for years, and having heard most of their stuff over the years, I'd say subs are Paradigm's weak point, and most of their subs below the 2200 aren't that impressive. The 2200 is pretty nice, but because there are manufacturers like SVS and HSU that offer similar performance for less $$, it would make it tough for me to justify a 2200 at MSRP.
I agree, the middle of the road Paradigm subs are not their strong points. However, the Seismic series of subs are quite impressive, but very expensive, not the best bang for the buck.

Ohmage.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Takeereasy,

Let us know what you think of the Cadence. Full report required. ;)
 
Takeereasy

Takeereasy

Audioholic General
I'm going to order it on the Coming Monday or Tuesday. I was going to do it this coming Sunday but I want to talk to a rep first and I don't think they are open on the weekends. Should have the cash in hand by next Tuesday, and it is only 2 days shipping from NJ to Ontario. RjBudz I'll post back my opinions, but they will be far from scientific, I'm hoping to be impressed. It was down to the Cadence or Bic and I liked the looks/stats of teh Cadence better.

Edit: I agree with you there ohmage. Paradigm makes some awesome subs once you break the $1K barrier. Seismic subs are fantastic, and those Servos are no slouches either. I think it's fair to note that the PDR12 that I was so casually bashing is a really decent entry level sub. The guy that I borrowed it from was originally going to get a JBL sub, a 12" Northridge one, for about the same cost, about $50 more actually. There is no comparison between the two, the Paradigm is vastly superior.
 
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