Hsu & Velodyne subwoofers

[hlesser]

<font color='#000000'>I'm looking for a musical subwoofer (subtlety over slam) to add to my system.  Rotel RSX-1055 &amp; Denon DVD-2900 with KEF 104/2 fronts in a 20 x 18 room.  I listening to a mix of mostly classical, occasional jazz &amp; pop.  Earthshaking bass for movies is NOT a prime concern.  I'd like to hear some extension for quality SACD recordings as well as my large redbook CD collection.

Possible models include the Hsu VTF-3 (anyone know much about the new Mk II models due in December) and the Velodyne SPL 1000.  Gene's review on this site of the Velo 800 seemed to suggest it might not be optimal for music in a larger room.  The Hsu VTF-3R can be had for about $850, the Velodyne SPL1000 for about $1000.  Which of these two would you consider and are there any other options (I'm not adverse to spending less!)</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#736AFF'>I own Hsu subs, but I havn't heard any of their box type subs.  I love my TN-1220's, and I've heard a lot of good things about the VTF subs.  The Velodynes I've heard were very nice, although not in the same league as the TNs.

You may want to check out the new Hsu STF subs; they're essentially the same subs as the VTF but without the variable tunining frequency feature (STF= single tuning freq).  They're set to max extend, which is better for pure music anyway, and they're considerably cheaper than the VTFs.

You can check em out at www.hsuresearch.com for more info.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>It seems lots of audiophiles recommend REL Strata III as really good sub for music.  They are reasonably price at  ~$1500 list.  They can be had used on Audiogon for around $950 but they go FAST!   I am personally also looking a good musical sub and REL is on top of my list.

For 2-channel-only setup, Vandersteen 2WQ (list ~1200) is also highly recommended, and in my opinion probably they are the best.  Unfortunately they don't work with LFE of HT setup.

You might also want to look into Yamaha subs highly recommened by no other than Mr. &quot;Yamahaluver&quot; .   The specs look great and price is right.  Don't have first hand experience with them though.


Abe</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>If you are looking for musical, then Yamaha is the right place, but for real deep low down bass for HT purpose, I would go with Velodyne, SVS, Def Tech etc.</font>

 

[Khellandros66]

<font color='#000000'>Best two subs ever are probably the Definitive SuperCube I, and the Velodyne HGS10. &nbsp;Nothing I've heard competes, next choice if on a tight budget get the Yamaha YST-SW1500 or dual 315's

~Bob</font>

 

[av_phile]

<font color='#000000'>I am aware of twp brands that make very musical subs - REL and VANDERSTEEN, by reputation.  

There may be others.  Most people in many fora agree that a musical sub should not be boomy.  And many subs with sealed enclusure (not ported) would qualify as such.  So look for one.  A relatively inexpensive one is the Mordaunt-short 909W, if not mistaken.  It uses a sealed enclosure with a 12&quot; long throw aluminum woofer that behaves in perfect pistonic motion.  Other subs with 8&quot; - 10&quot; woofers in a sealed enclusure may also qualify as more musical than slammy.  Just audition them using a CD or any musical source.</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>I would highly recommend the Velodyne HGS-10. It has excellent low end extension as well as transient response. It is also quite detailed for the amount of output available.</font>

 

[ARRAY]

<font color='#000000'>I'm looking for a musical subwoofer (subtlety over slam) to add to my system. *

I love the term "musical" when used to describe audio gear!

Musical? What is that anyways. I mean, musical as in after you eat a can of beans kind of musical?

I think a loudspeakers' characteristics are degrees of:

a) dynamics
b) control
c) relative smoothness
d) range
e) output

Best terms used to describe a loudspeaker are on the scale of either realistic or natural. After all, reality is what sound systems are trying to reproduce (something real which was recorded).

There are tonnes of subwoofers available out there, some will be more realistic & natural sounding in reproduction than others. I have heard a few but not too many. It seems most of them are super inefficient but handle large amounts of power, occupy small footprints and employ massive cones (Kind of like driving a garbage can lid in place of a cone). In other words, they have the range and output but sacrifice dynamics and smoothness.

The most natural & realistic sounding subwoofers will use a high Q driver in a large enclosure. Nothing sounds better than that, in a subwoofer or otherwise. Ideally, in a powered subwoofer, you'd want an amplifier that was built specifically for the driver in a specific enclosure. You could build your own passive subwoofer too. I've yet to get around to it but I'm going to do just that using a single 18" custom made driver. It should (I hope) sound really natural and not break the bank.

 

[Sheep]

I love the term "musical" when used to describe audio gear!

Musical? What is that anyways. I mean, musical as in after you eat a can of beans kind of musical?

I think a loudspeakers' characteristics are degrees of:

a) dynamics
b) control
c) relative smoothness
d) range
e) output

Best terms used to describe a loudspeaker are on the scale of either realistic or natural. After all, reality is what sound systems are trying to reproduce (something real which was recorded).

There are tonnes of subwoofers available out there, some will be more realistic & natural sounding in reproduction than others. I have heard a few but not too many. It seems most of them are super inefficient but handle large amounts of power, occupy small footprints and employ massive cones (Kind of like driving a garbage can lid in place of a cone). In other words, they have the range and output but sacrifice dynamics and smoothness.

The most natural & realistic sounding subwoofers will use a high Q driver in a large enclosure. Nothing sounds better than that, in a subwoofer or otherwise. Ideally, in a powered subwoofer, you'd want an amplifier that was built specifically for the driver in a specific enclosure. You could build your own passive subwoofer too. I've yet to get around to it but I'm going to do just that using a single 18" custom made driver. It should (I hope) sound really natural and not break the bank.

This thread is 3 years old. Please read the date before posting.

SheepStar

 

[JustEd]

<font color='#000000'>I'm looking for a musical subwoofer (subtlety over slam) to add to my system.

Check out the AV123 websitehttp://www.av123.com/products_category.php?section=speakers
they claim their subs are intended for music rather than sound effects.

I do not have the Velodyne sub you mention but do have a 12 incher and 8 incher and neither are great for music unless you turn them way way down.

To some extent you are facing a basic design flaw. Since most powered subs I have seen are quite compact there is no real way to produce a linear bass response. They are thus tuned for high output at a particular bass frequency (port freq). That is why they tend to have the one note bass thump.

Ed

 

[JustEd]

<font color='#000000'>I'm looking for a musical subwoofer (subtlety over slam) to add to my system.

Forgot to mention a possible solution. Many years ago I saw where a audiophile placed several 12 or possibly it was 15 inch woofers in the wall of his home the separated that room from the garage. This is basically making a infinite baffle enclosure out of your garage. If you have such a room and a two car garage just add a crossover and amps and you would have a dynamite woofer setup. You might just place your satellites on the same wall or experiment with in wall mids and tweets also. I have never had the balls to do this, my wife would kill me if I did. But possibly you are more willing to take the risk and let me know how it sounds.

Ed

 

[JustEd]

I love the term "musical" when used to describe audio gear!

Musical? What is that anyways. I mean, musical as in after you eat a can of beans kind of musical?

I think a sub that is NOT very musical would have poor control and not be very smooth.

One of the best speakers I have heard for reproducing bass was a fifties design set of University woofers with the matching Cobraflex horn and trebble speaker (also horn). The crossover was hand built to their design. The bass enclosure was a fairly compact ported design (can't remember the dimension but possibly a 24 inch cube sounds right, or possibly a bit bigger. These would emit no bass whatsoever until the music called for it, then it was there with an immediacy and in a quite linear fashion. Did I mention almost no hang over?

My Brother in Law actually owned these, though I finished building them, and one day he got tired of the big cabinets and took them to a local audio retailer who gave them a 100 dollar trade in one some wall mount speakers...anyone have a ginsu handy?

 

[Sheep]

Check out the AV123 websitehttp://www.av123.com/products_category.php?section=speakers
they claim their subs are intended for music rather than sound effects.

I do not have the Velodyne sub you mention but do have a 12 incher and 8 incher and neither are great for music unless you turn them way way down.

To some extent you are facing a basic design flaw. Since most powered subs I have seen are quite compact there is no real way to produce a linear bass response. They are thus tuned for high output at a particular bass frequency (port freq). That is why they tend to have the one note bass thump.

Ed

Most Manu. also introduce an EQ within the amp to help flatten that bass hump.

Dude, old thread, they're not even members anymore.

SheepStar

 

[JustEd]

Ok

Point taken but there was a recent post. I got the idea that some of the threads here went on for a long time. But indeed I should not have responded to the original poster.

btw, I disagree about subs being equalized. It seems to me that people who like certain types of music or just movies are happy with sub design, people who listen to mostly music and different types are not.

Ed