How would you wire this?

patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
I have gotten a lot of great help from this forum and am hoping for some more right now. I have some outdoor speakers and want to run wire to them (obviously:)). My 7.1 Marantz in the family room will power the outside zone.

I plan to put a plate with 5 way posts on the wall behind the receiver for these. It needs to go in-wall straight down to the basement, across the ceiling of the now unfinished basement, then out the wall just above the foundation, up the wall about 8 feet to each speaker.

So I have an in-wall and outdoor run on this install. My question is do I have to run in-wall speaker to the outside wall and then splice the outdoor stuff to it and run it up the outside wall? I hate to splice the wire as I am sure it can downgrade the sound quality. If not, please correct me. Does anyone else have other suggestions on how to do this? Can I just use outdoor or low voltage landscape wire to run the whole thing or do I need the in-wall stuff too?

I am sure someone has had to do a similar install. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! I apologize if this is a stupid question.

The other question I have is how you guys control the volume on the outside. Do you use outdoor volume knobs or something else? I was hoping to control the volume from the patio if possible and not too much trouble.

Pat
 
JohnA

JohnA

Audioholic Chief
I would run In-wall (CL2 or CL3 rated wire) until you get outside. Use outdoor/direct burial wire for the outside stuff. If you use a volume control then just run the In-wall wire to the volume control and then use the outdoor rated wire. Does your Receiver have a separate zone 2 with separate volume control? If it does you could use (for outside) a volume control with IR receiver and that way you can control the receiver from outside using the remote. By the way, didn't you post this question like a week ago? Or am I going crazy? :D
 
Use all outdoor wire and buy an impedance matched volume control to mount to an outside box.

Sort of like the picture below but with a single, extra-deep door for use with switches, etc...

You can also use conduit once you get outside...
 

Attachments

j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
patnshan said:
I plan to put a plate with 5 way posts on the wall behind the receiver for these. It needs to go in-wall straight down to the basement, across the ceiling of the now unfinished basement, then out the wall just above the foundation, up the wall about 8 feet to each speaker.

So I have an in-wall and outdoor run on this install. My question is do I have to run in-wall speaker to the outside wall and then splice the outdoor stuff to it and run it up the outside wall? I hate to splice the wire as I am sure it can downgrade the sound quality. If not, please correct me. Does anyone else have other suggestions on how to do this? Can I just use outdoor or low voltage landscape wire to run the whole thing or do I need the in-wall stuff too?

The other question I have is how you guys control the volume on the outside. Do you use outdoor volume knobs or something else? I was hoping to control the volume from the patio if possible and not too much trouble.

Pat
There are no stupid questions :) (OK, there are, but something like this certainly isn't). I would go with what you said in the second paragraph, with the splice. It should not degrade your sound, as long as you use a good method for creating that junction, and you use a sufficient AWG wire for the length of run. If you run it to a volume control, you can run the outdoor wire from there.
 
JohnA

JohnA

Audioholic Chief
Clint DeBoer said:
Use all outdoor wire and buy an impedance matched volume control to mount to an outside box.

Sort of like the picture below but with a single, extra-deep door for use with switches, etc...

You can also use conduit once you get outside...
Clint...Most outdoor wire is not rated for in wall use...it needs to have a min. of a CL2 rating to be legal and up to code.
 
snickelfritz

snickelfritz

Junior Audioholic
I used to do retrofits professionally for a security/AV company.

Splicing is not an issue with regard to sound quality or reliability, but should not be necessary.
You need to use fire-rated in-wall wiring; nothing fancy, just commercial grade 16g four conductor for the volume control, and two conductor for the speaker runs.

My advice would be to run the 4c from the amp to a 3/4" hole in the sole plate below the vc location. run a pull-wire (4c phone wire works perfectly for this) up to the vc location, then tie the 4c and (2) 2c to it and pull them all up together to the vc.
Now run the 2c to each of the speaker locations from the basement.

The easiest method I have found for fishing wires up an insulated wall is to wrap the 1/8" fish-tape hook with electrical tape (to keep it from snagging), run it up the wall (hook toward the inside, with a slight inward bend in the fishtape) and have an assistant probe the wall outside (at the speaker and vc locations) with a 3' section of fish tape while you listen to the fishtape reel.
You'll hear a very distinct "tink" or scraping sound when he touches the fish tape.
Once he gets his hook around your run of fishtape, you'll very slowly pull down while he pulls outward.
With a little luck, the your hook should pop out his hole, and he can attach the pull wire. (your assistant should have needle-nose pliers handy for grabbing and yanking the hook out of the wall if necessary)
Run all three pull-wires, then use them to pull your speaker wires into place.

The wire I have used commercially has separate insulated leads inside a common jacket. (similar to 4c phone wire)
BTW, cell phones or walkie-talkies are a good way to communicate if you can't hear each other directly.
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
JohnA said:
I would run In-wall (CL2 or CL3 rated wire) until you get outside. Use outdoor/direct burial wire for the outside stuff. If you use a volume control then just run the In-wall wire to the volume control and then use the outdoor rated wire. Does your Receiver have a separate zone 2 with separate volume control? If it does you could use (for outside) a volume control with IR receiver and that way you can control the receiver from outside using the remote. By the way, didn't you post this question like a week ago? Or am I going crazy? :D
Thanks. No I didn't post this question or I am really going crazy! I looked for a similar situation and didn't find one in the posts.

I have a Marantz SR-8400 with separate zone 2 controls. I could do the IR thing, but really don't need to control anything but the volume from the outside. It would mainly be for the radio and MP3 streaming or big MP3 discs. Are the IR options expensive? Do they work well?

Pat
 
Last edited:
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
Clint DeBoer said:
Use all outdoor wire and buy an impedance matched volume control to mount to an outside box.

Sort of like the picture below but with a single, extra-deep door for use with switches, etc...

You can also use conduit once you get outside...
I will check these out. I have not seen a deep one. I have the same boxes on my outdoor outlets. I was hoping for a little more low profile, but if it is a must for outdoors, maybe I have to do it. I can tuck it behind a hanging plant I guess. Do I need to use conduit with that or just the wire into the box? I think home depot has the volume controls.

So all outdoor wire would meet the in-wall requirement? Is that a big deal?

I doubt the conduit would meet WAF :) I was actually going to paint the wire the same color as my house :D Maybe I could find some really thin, gray conduit that would match?

Pat
 
Last edited:
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
snickelfritz said:
I used to do retrofits professionally for a security/AV company.

Splicing is not an issue with regard to sound quality or reliability, but should not be necessary.
You need to use fire-rated in-wall wiring; nothing fancy, just commercial grade 16g four conductor for the volume control, and two conductor for the speaker runs.

My advice would be to run the 4c from the amp to a 3/4" hole in the sole plate below the vc location. run a pull-wire (4c phone wire works perfectly for this) up to the vc location, then tie the 4c and (2) 2c to it and pull them all up together to the vc.
Now run the 2c to each of the speaker locations from the basement.

The easiest method I have found for fishing wires up an insulated wall is to wrap the 1/8" fish-tape hook with electrical tape (to keep it from snagging), run it up the wall (hook toward the inside, with a slight inward bend in the fishtape) and have an assistant probe the wall outside (at the speaker and vc locations) with a 3' section of fish tape while you listen to the fishtape reel.
You'll hear a very distinct "tink" or scraping sound when he touches the fish tape.
Once he gets his hook around your run of fishtape, you'll very slowly pull down while he pulls outward.
With a little luck, the your hook should pop out his hole, and he can attach the pull wire. (your assistant should have needle-nose pliers handy for grabbing and yanking the hook out of the wall if necessary)
Run all three pull-wires, then use them to pull your speaker wires into place.

The wire I have used commercially has separate insulated leads inside a common jacket. (similar to 4c phone wire)
BTW, cell phones or walkie-talkies are a good way to communicate if you can't hear each other directly.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. There is no problem fishing the wire from the HT to the basement. I can do that. Are you saying I could fish the wire up the outside wall from the basement? If so, I didn't know I can do that. I was planning on going straight out, just about the foundation and then running it up the wall.

Pat
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
j_garcia said:
There are no stupid questions :) (OK, there are, but something like this certainly isn't). I would go with what you said in the second paragraph, with the splice. It should not degrade your sound, as long as you use a good method for creating that junction, and you use a sufficient AWG wire for the length of run. If you run it to a volume control, you can run the outdoor wire from there.
If I were not going to do the volume control, what would you recommend using for the splice? Some crimp on inline connectors, wire ties, some sort of block?

Thanks much,

Pat
 
Fathertime

Fathertime

Audiophyte
patnshan said:
Thanks. No I didn't post this question or I am really going crazy! I looked for a similar situation and didn't find one in the posts.

I have a Marantz SR-8400 with separate zone 2 controls. I could do the IR thing, but really don't need to control anything but the volume from the outside. It would mainly be for the radio and MP3 streaming or big MP3 discs. Are the IR options expensive? Do they work well?

Pat
I don't remember how much mine cost but it works great and the reciever i have is about a 2"x3"x3/4" black box so it doesn't stick out unless you are looking for it
 
snickelfritz

snickelfritz

Junior Audioholic
patnshan said:
Sorry if I wasn't clear. There is no problem fishing the wire from the HT to the basement. I can do that. Are you saying I could fish the wire up the outside wall from the basement? If so, I didn't know I can do that. I was planning on going straight out, just about the foundation and then running it up the wall.

Pat
I have never wired a house in which running the speaker wires exposed was an option.
Exposed wiring of any type is subject to damage and just looks a bit "ghetto" IMO.
Even houses with solid block walls usually have some type of wiring chase or fir'ed interior wall surfaces.
In any event, structurally and legally, there should be no problem with drilling holes in the soleplate.
Unless of course, you have direct access to the interior of the outside wall from the basement!
.
All houses are different.
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
snickelfritz said:
I have never wired a house in which running the speaker wires exposed was an option.
Exposed wiring of any type is subject to damage and just looks a bit "ghetto" IMO.
Even houses with solid block walls usually have some type of wiring chase or fir'ed interior wall surfaces.
In any event, structurally and legally, there should be no problem with drilling holes in the soleplate.
Unless of course, you have direct access to the interior of the outside wall from the basement!
.
All houses are different.
I agree about the "ghetto" thing. The wire would be behind a thick trim piece, visible only from right up against the house. I would tack it down tight and paint it. Otherwise, I do not know how I would get the wire behind the cedar siding. I also have sliding doors and windows on the wall where with speakers will be. They will be mounted on the ceiling of the overhang, or soffit. Any ideas for that?
Thanks again,
Pat
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
For anyone interested, I found some CL2 rated indoor/inwall/outdoor black 16-2 speaker wire at radioshack. It's about $28 and seems to be the solution to my problem. Straight out with no crimps.

Thanks again for all the input!

Pat
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Eh...I'd try to find if Home Depot has some 14/2 or 12/2. You're making a fairly long run.
 
patnshan

patnshan

Senior Audioholic
jaxvon said:
Eh...I'd try to find if Home Depot has some 14/2 or 12/2. You're making a fairly long run.
They do, but it's either outdoor or in-wall, not both. I'd have to make a splice. The run is probably about 30 feet, not as far as you'd think. The family room backs up to the patio. Just down to the basement, across, and out.

Pat
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, at 30ft, and not for some high-power stuff, you'll be fine. And you're right, splices suck, so I don't blame you at all. Good luck with the project!
 

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