How to approach a home-NON-theater room?

[Linwood]

New house, and starting to set up TV room and my office and learning all the new options of wireless and old wired and... but those are not the questions...

I have a room that is 16x30 with 9.5' ceilings approximately, kitchen at one end, and the other end would normally be a living room, but it isn't. I put a big pool table in it, and very little furniture. Basically it will be a game room, kitchen-bar at the other end, TV (LG 65" OLED) on the short wall opposite the kitchen.

Sound...

It's not a home theater setup for all sorts of reasons not the least of which if you were sitting in the classic position you are in the middle of the pool table. Also, most use will likely be people talking, playing pool and the TV likely on a sports event, news, maybe a movie but even if so mostly as background. The OLED is great because it looks good from any angle in the room. There's another room for a more classic home theater experience.

How do I do sound in such a room. The room has all bad features - lots of tile and granite and little furniture (I've put some art on the walls as gallery wraps to be a bit more absorbent but only can do so much there). It's also long, so the TV is very loud at one end if you try to make it audible clearly at the other.

At first glance it seems I might not want a traditional 5.1 (or 7.1) setup, as that is aimed more or less at a fixed central point, which doesn't apply. I'l still have all the important sounds at one end of the room, someone shooting near the TV will be blasted, someone in the kitchen will be cupping their ears.

Do I want just left/right, and put speakers at each end that are plain left and plain right duplicated, and go for plain stereo throughout?

Or just do a 3.1 (or just 3.0) type setup an accept that you only hear the TV at one end because nothing else works?

Basic desire: Make the sound clear throughout the room, so people can understand dialog. Any other good is a bonus.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I’d go ahead and get a standard AVR. Most have a 5-channel stereo option, or something similar. Be sure the one you chose does. The auto calibration will add delay to the back speakers, which you would definitely want.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Linwood]

When you say "5 channel stereo" that's a mode where surround left and left front are playing the same thing? Or is the surround left and surround right somehow mixed with center?

I would be buying a new AVR, or maybe a wireless system (e.g. Enclave) would be nice in that room because of difficulty wiring, so I can check. But is it always called that, or does it have different names?

I have a Yamaha RX-V673 in a different room, and could not find anything with a similar name in the manual, or a description to match. All sorts of ways you can fake a 2 channel signal to 5.1, or process a 5.1 signal, but I didn't see anything about the reverse, but maybe they use different terminology?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

See page 49 of the manual

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v673/downloads.html.

Regards,
Wayne Pflughaupt

 

[Linwood]

(blush) didn't occur to me to search for 7 channel stereo, sorry.

I'll find the downloadable manuals for other AVR's or 5.1 sound bars I look at, and see if I can find the same feature. The Yamaha is wired up and in a TV room, where despite being 7 years old or so, it does a very nice job. I was pleased when I hooked up to an LG OLED TV via HDMI ARC how nicely it worked, just like magic.

Now to figure out if I'm up for running wires in the problem room. I'm thinking not, but partly because it's S. Florida and my attic is about 500 degrees on a good day.

Those wireless things are sure attractive when you get confronted with the attic-from-hell. I suspect I'll regret it later. I'm a big fan of wire for networks, alarms, cameras, etc., and I suspect all the same reasons and probably more apply here.

Thank you.

 

[2channel lover]

I would probably buy an AVR as well, but unless you just wanted more than 2 speakers playing...the basic 2 channel would be sufficient...just get yourself a pair speakers large enough to fill the room with sound and be done with it.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

He’s trying to avoid this problem:

At first glance it seems I might not want a traditional 5.1 (or 7.1) setup, as that is aimed more or less at a fixed central point, which doesn't apply. I'll still have all the important sounds at one end of the room, someone shooting [pool] near the TV will be blasted, someone in the kitchen will be cupping their ears.
Basic desire: Make the sound clear throughout the room, so people can understand dialog.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Linwood]

Yeah, and my guess is that avoiding really loud by having it output distributed may reduce the echo impact from all the solid surfaces. Though I am unclear if I am just trading one type of echo for another (time delayed sound from the other end).

If I hadn't already run all the wires in the other room and gotten it just like I wanted I would be tempted to drag those speakers into here, and experiment. Actually in thinking about it, that may be a very good idea, I can see what various approaches and placement sound like. If none of it is a lot better than the built-in speakers, I save a lot of money.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

The AVR's auto-calibration will take care of the time delay.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Linwood]

The AVR's auto-calibration will take care of the time delay.

I understand (I think) what the calibration does, it picks a single spot and adjusts the delay so the sound arrives simultaneously at that point. And if there's a group of observers, say a couch, picking the middle is "close enough" for those side by side.

But what happens when observers are 20' apart (further back or front)?

Should I calibrate for a point 50% of the way between front and back (stereo) speakers? With the idea that is the point where the sound from the "wrong" speaker is the loudest, and as one moves toward the front or rear of the room, that "wrong" speaker drops off and so the increasing delay from the "wrong" speaker is accompanied by it getting less loud from distance?

 

[BMXTRIX]

I will say that in my family room/kitchen setup, which sounds similar, due to location and wiring issues, we just went with a 3.1 setup. It's not our theater, or main viewing area, just a family room and we will be in the kitchen quite a bit. I don't care about surround sound when chilling out in there. We went from a 64" plasma to a 85" LCD. Worse image, but the size jump & brightness jump in that room was well worth it.

I can't tell you how much I enjoy the 3.1. It works well and gets good audio throughout the space if needed. I use slim floorstanding speakers from Paradigm (Millenia 300), similar to the Def-Tech Mythos speakers. But, I could see using in-wall speakers of decent quality depending on budget and floor space requirements and in consideration of the pool table which may make floor speakers a hazard. With my kids I know that the base of one of my speakers (glass) has been broken and that I have a few divots in my wall from the speakers being banged against them. So, those are real considerations if floorstanding speakers are in consideration for your room.

Otherwise, 5.1 or 7.1 use becomes somewhat questionable in a non-theater specific space, and we certainly prefer audio coming from near the front of the room when watching normal TV most of the time.

We do have additional speakers in the ceiling back in the kitchen just in case we want to add some audio to our listening. That's something you may be able to accomplish with zone 2 output of audio, if you can get wiring in place. In our home, we cut holes in drywall, repaired it, and repainted to get things the way we wanted it. This may sound painful, but if you are going to live there for 5+ years, then it's worth it to do it right and enjoy the heck out of it while you are there. I did a LOT of wiring in my home, so everyone has different results they are going for. Plan accordingly.

 

[Linwood]

@BMXTRIX, thank you. That helps with the thought process, and I did start with a 55" and went to 65" (because I had it coming from the old house) and can see a big difference, I expect your 85" was a huge difference!

One issue I have is that the TV wall is exterior, which down here means 3/8" sheet rock, 1/2" air, and then concrete block. There's not a lot of opportunity for installing speakers into that wall (they can easily hang on it), but there's no opportunity really for an AVR there. And due to pool table proximity, I can't put a console table against that wall. Best I could do would be to run wires to a closet, and the best one in that regard (power and such already there) is about 40' away -- a long way to run HDMI and trust it. I do have ethernet there, but not sure I trust those HDMI-over-ethernet (especially if trying to use HDMI ARC).

But your argument does make me think a plain (but good) 3.0 sound bar may be a good choice. Or maybe 3.1 with wireless (subwoofer under the pool table might be nice -- there's power there).

 

[BMXTRIX]

Every situation is different. I go in with a "I'm going to be here for years! I want it to be awesome." mentality. But, I knew when I started I was going to have drywall to repair and painting to be done. So, tackle your situation appropriately. My brother got a 3.0 soundbar + separate subwoofer with a similar setup.

The key difference being that we had a unfinished basement under the home to run cabling through. It made it much easier to run the wiring we needed to from the speaker/TV location to the equipment location.

Yeah, I have a small equipment rack in a closet in the family room, but most of my gear is 50 feet away in the basement.

If you go through the effort of running a HDMI cable, be sure to run 2 cables and 2 pieces of cat-6 as well. Using category cabling for sending HDMI video is very common and works well. Plus, you can terminate the cable to the exact length that you need.

 

[Linwood]

Yeah, I tend to do the same "be there forever". But these exterior walls here are a real pain. Back in the real world I was used to at least getting 1.5" between sheet rock and block if not 3.5", here in the new builds you can't even fit a thin outlet box without knocking a hole in the block. Which I've done. I just don't like to. And if you hit the spot where they fill the holes with concrete (ever 3' or so) it's a much bigger pain.

as to hdmi over cat cable -- does it work well for hdmi arc type runs? I guess specifically do the devices that do the translation work well for that?

 

[BMXTRIX]

...as to hdmi over cat cable -- does it work well for hdmi arc type runs? I guess specifically do the devices that do the translation work well for that?

I know that HD-Base-T does not support ARC at all. Keep in mind that the main reason to use ARC is if you are plugging in sources directly to the TV or if you want to use the integrated 'smart' functionality.

The former, I don't know how to address. I think there are some cat extenders which support ARC, I just haven't played with them personally, so others may be able to give a better answer.

If you are just using it for 'smart' functionality of the TV, then don't. Get a Roku or some similar 'smart' device for $100 and you will have a better experience than the TV can typically offer. Roku is one of my go-to devices and one of the most commonly requested upgrades on systems I install. You get all the smart functionality you will typically want or need with that type of product, and it doesn't end up located at the TV.

 

[Linwood]

If you are just using it for 'smart' functionality of the TV, then don't. Get a Roku or some similar 'smart' device ...

I probably should look at it. I was thinking of that, as the LG does a nice job with Amazon Prime and Netflix (both in 4K and 5.1) which I do use, but I also have a Chromecast on it which does at least one of those, and plenty that do all. Never looked at Roku but maybe time.

That would simplify some things, I could then move everything into my network closet which is already powered, UPS'd and networked. That opens up more choices for speakers, though I still need to get something on that wall, I guess in that case 3 speakers. So I keep coming back to the annoyance of running wire to there. Maybe if I wait for winter it won't seem so daunting. Or maybe look for some true wireless-but-using-separate-AVR solution?