how much over RMS IS TOO MUCH

[johnny45]

a serious question my fronts are BIC Amercia Acoustech Platinum Series PL-89 tower speaker with 250 rms an a peak of 600watts at 8ohms

im currently driving by a crown xli 800 at 200watts at 8ohms per ch with the signal knobs at 70% an -7db per ch from my outlaw audio 976 balanced receiver connected via xlr

with the amp input Sensitivity set at 1.4

now some stuff sounds great some not no after a lot of adjusting an tuning of gains an eqs an etc i belive what i need is more power iv concidered using my xls 1502 to power my fronts with its 8ohm output at 300watts rms my qusetion is (is that safe 50watts over the pl-89s 250 rms in

 

[lovinthehd]

How about starting with RMS is a poor spec standard for such? Speaker wattage ratings are generally among the least useful, too. How do you figure the attenuation knobs are based on dB at all let alone your specific mention? 70% certainly doesn't align with 7dB.

The XLi amp at 1.4 V sensitivity should be fine generally and the Outlaw has a spec of 4V so should be more than enough.

 

[johnny45]

i backed off the channel output from the outlaw to -7db
an as for the attenuation knobs at 70% ther no labels as percent im just assuming as ther are 20 notches each id guess would repersent 5% so 6 click from full tilt seems like it would be 70% iv never been sure exactly how to set the amp , the stated config with an without the parometric eq ive run rew with each set of speakers fronts , sides an backs trying to tune them as best i can the big problem is the eq setting that rew suggest are ones my outlaw dosent have so iv been trying to tune by ear

 

[lovinthehd]

How did you establish channel levels for each speaker to begin with? Why did you set the gain knob at that particular position? You turned each channel level down from a default value of 0 to -7 in your pre-pro? All the speakers are set the same? You have the same speakers at the same distance from your listening position all around you? You might want to describe more what you're doing with REW to set levels....

I wouldn't make that assumption about the attenuation knob detents on those amps let alone think about it that way. The attenuation knob is there simply to adjust gain for your pre-amp's output level. I generally set my Crown amps to where it will just start to clip at the very highest level I'll use it at. Percentages and dB don't mix well together in any case as dB is a logarithmic scale.

Those BIC are relatively sensitive speakers and they're likely not using the power you think they are; they will likely sound bad and have you reaching for the volume knob before you reach their limits. Use an spl calculator like this to see the relationship of distance and the sensitivity of the speaker for power needed. I don't know how BIC rates the sensitivity but I suspect it is overstated at 98 dB, I'd probably use 4-5 dB less in the calculator at a guess (like I would do with Klipsch). I can't find any measurements from a 3rd party for these speakers, though. Speaker wattage ratings are perhaps useful as far as a limit goes, but not generally a very useful spec in general. Changing from a 200wpc amp to a 300wpc you would only gain 1.8 dB.....

If worried about feeding your speakers too much power, that's usually easily accomplished simply by using reasonable care with the master volume level. Drunken parties could well be different, though (and setting a volume limit on your pre-pro, if yours has that feature, isn't a bad idea, even just for own general use).

 

[Pogre]

You're likely using less than 5 or 10 watts most of the time. Like HD said, I think your speakers would sound horrible long before you reach the stated limits.

 

[johnny45]

thanks hd ill give all that a try

 

[lovinthehd]

thanks hd ill give all that a try

Keep us posted with your steps/results! Good luck!

 

[Kingnoob]

You're likely using less than 5 or 10 watts most of the time. Like HD said, I think your speakers would sound horrible long before you reach the stated limits.

Why does he need a pro amplifier to drive bic ? Those are like knock off Klipch or something???
I don’t understand how to even connect a Pro amplifier or i would have got one for my diy sub I never use anymore.

 

[johnny45]

Kingnoob
i already had the crowns an i originaly had a onkyo 717 as a prepro that i connected to the crowns via the rca's but the 717 preout were weak as poop an so i upgraded to a balanced receiver to take adventage of the xlrs , since combining the crowns with my outlaw 976 an the bics everthing is loud but not always clear some times things at loud an distorted the parometric eq is a great benifit but im still trying to fine tune which is a bit hit or miss my big current issue with my setup is a starting point for were i should set my gain as i dont want to set to high an blow everthing while tuning with rew .2 problem is the rew dosent have the same paro eq settings as my outlaw for tuning for room correction

 

[johnny45]

do i need sub to record a room curve in rew

currently dont have subs im in the diy custom build process

 

[Kingnoob]

Kingnoob
i already had the crowns an i originaly had a onkyo 717 as a prepro that i connected to the crowns via the rca's but the 717 preout were weak as poop an so i upgraded to a balanced receiver to take adventage of the xlrs , since combining the crowns with my outlaw 976 an the bics everthing is loud but not always clear some times things at loud an distorted the parometric eq is a great benifit but im still trying to fine tune which is a bit hit or miss my big current issue with my setup is a starting point for were i should set my gain as i dont want to set to high an blow everthing while tuning with rew .2 problem is the rew dosent have the same paro eq settings as my outlaw for tuning for room correction

Ahh I see the outlaw doesn’t power anything? Separates are cool , more expensive
but useful. Nice https://outlawaudio.com/shop/preamps-processors/23-model-976.html
My onkyo 818 can run 9ch if I added a power amplifier like yours . But I have no reason to run 9 speakers in my current set up ⬆ no atmos either !!! Audysee dsx isn’t good enough to be worth it .
I don’t have a clue on using pro amps need specific special cables and stuff to run pro audio amps / speakers connections to rca or speaker wire .

If my sub plate amp ever dies I may need something similar or a sub amp separate. Plate amps are expensive!!! 500 w rms isn’t even my max power input . My best sub is never used anymore my mom hates it an i cannot afford to move out . So it collects dust I rarely watch movies on my bedroom plasma .. sad I got no second quality receiver up there , onkyo moved downstairs...

 

[johnny45]

what is the dif between the 4V RCA 9 V XLR an the 2V RCA; 4V XLR listed specs on the 976

no eq i guess Max Pre-Out Voltage - 4V RCA 9 V XLR

with eq i guess Pre-Out Voltage 2V RCA; 4V XLR

 

[TankTop5]

Lots of technical jargon. How are you using your speakers, small bedroom, massive living room or are they in your backyard and you want them louder from the other side of the pool?

 

[johnny45]

my ht room is 15ft by 20ft by 8ft with each speaker is 12in out from the walls so its about 6ft to the seating

 

[trochetier]

There is no too much RMS for speakers, there is too high volume setting.

 

[lovinthehd]

Kingnoob
i already had the crowns an i originaly had a onkyo 717 as a prepro that i connected to the crowns via the rca's but the 717 preout were weak as poop an so i upgraded to a balanced receiver to take adventage of the xlrs , since combining the crowns with my outlaw 976 an the bics everthing is loud but not always clear some times things at loud an distorted the parometric eq is a great benifit but im still trying to fine tune which is a bit hit or miss my big current issue with my setup is a starting point for were i should set my gain as i dont want to set to high an blow everthing while tuning with rew .2 problem is the rew dosent have the same paro eq settings as my outlaw for tuning for room correction

My older Onkyo (an RC370) has more than enough pre-out level to achieve clipping on my Crowns. You have more than enough pre-out level with your Outlaw to get full use of the amp. What volume level is showing on your Outlaw when the clipping indicator comes on on your Crown?

The specs for output voltage are generally higher for XLR (and likewise many XLR equipped amps need that higher level, too, altho the Crown only needs 1.4V).

 

[johnny45]

to lovinthehd
ive never cliped with the mains at even when at -10ref vol mostly on netfilk some some is really low with blu ray rips from nas i rarly exceed -25 to -20 ref vol
but with my subs once but that was without using the outlaws lfe trim setting since doing so no issues ther

 

[lovinthehd]

to lovinthehd
ive never cliped with the mains at even when at -10ref vol mostly on netfilk some some is really low with blu ray rips from nas i rarly exceed -25 to -20 ref vol
but with my subs once but that was without using the outlaws lfe trim setting since doing so no issues ther

I'd expect clipping at 0 or higher. If you don't have any higher volume requirements than that and you're not clipping at all then you should be fine in that respect, though.

Do you have another Crown on a sub?

 

[johnny45]

no my previous setup for subs was a set of singal 15in 4ohm ported in prefab cabs on a 1502 xls at 525watt each as of right now while tring to fine tune my setup as stated im currently working on some custom 20hz labyrinth ported cabs for 2ohm loads at 775watts from the 1502

scar audio 15in vxf d4 ported sub build concept

cab is to be made from layers of birch an mdf driver choice wired to 2 ohms currently own (scar audio vxf 15in d4) amp is crown xls 1502 775watts at 2ohms per ch cab concept dims with driver at 4.5lt are to be 16in w by 26in h by 9in d = 2cft outer 12in d by 22in w by 60in t port lenght...

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