How much bag do you need? (SVS)

[moves]

I meant bang.... I was wondering how much is enough.... I mean for an average room (lets say 10 X 20 feet) would there be a difference between the 2 X PB12s- plus and 2 X PB 13 ultras?

Wouldn't the PB12 be more than enough? Do you think there would be a noticeable difference?

 

[ImcLoud]

Subwoofers are a funny part of the HT, I have a good sized room with a 9 foot opening to another huge room... I had a single HSU VTF2 mk 4 and it sounded great, filled the room, and was actually too much, my AVR was set at sub-6 and my subs gain control was below the half way point, and when you pushed the volume, that sub shook the entire house, so what do I do, ADD ANOTHER ONE... Now it is an insane amount of bass, granted smoother, and sounds great, but I rarely put both subs on, I normally just run the single and sometimes when we have guests of and we are watching amovie I will turn them both on and let the house rattle around a little bit...

My brother on the other hand has a VTF15 Dual drive and he turns them up so high its silly, he literally cracked the plaster over at the edge of his tray ceiling, brand new house and he is shaking it apart at the seems with a $1500 pair of subs.... Its too much...

 

[moves]

Yea I mean unless it's a BIG room... I can't see why someone would need something so big. Do you think I should even go smaller than 2 X PB12s?

I've never experiences a big powerful sub before so I am not sure what it is like..... Wouldn't you be able to put both of your subs on and control the levels of the bass so it is not too much for you?

 

[ImcLoud]

Is this for music or theater?

I'm not a huge SVS fan, I like their cheaper sealed subs for music the sb1000 and sb12nsd because they are cheap, fast and pretty musical, but I wouldn't use them in a theater... If its for music go with one sb12 to start with, if its not enough get a second...

if its for theater, I like HSU and Im sure you would have more than enough bass with an hsu vtf2 VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer then if its not enough add a second, mine are sickeningly powerful...

I demoed 3 of the svs subs and picked the HSU VTF2, its a diamond in the rough for sure, only available in black , all business...

 

[moves]

Really??? Hmm it's a lot cheaper as well. I am looking mostly for HT. I don't use a sub for music but this could change if I end up getting a couple of new boxes.

 

[shadyJ]

+1 on the VTF2. Hey ImCloud, Hsu actually posted some FRs and CEA2010s of the VTF2 and others on their product pages, you should give them a glance, its interesting how the Hsu subs compare with each other.

To the OP, as for how much bang is needed, that is a personal preference, some people only want a little, others need a lot. How loud do yo like to listen to your movies with respect to, say, an Imax movie theater?

 

[moves]

I wonder what that ULS 15 sounds like...

 

[shadyJ]

The ULS is a great sub, I have a couple of those myself. But if you are looking for big bang for the buck, the VTF15h actually does have a bit more output, although it might not have the sound quality of the ULS. It will still sound very good though.

 

[ImcLoud]

I wonder what that ULS 15 sounds like...

The ULS15 is one of the FASTEST most musical subs I have ever heard, usually a big 15" sub will suck for music {not always but most I have heard} but not that one it outperforms every other musical sub I ever heard, they are amazing... They are good for HT too, but I think its over kill and you will be happier with a ported sub like the vtf2, and if thats not enough buy a second, if thats not enough your house better be built out of cement, lol... A friend of mine has a pair of pb13 ultras, he listens to movies with the bass lower than I do, and alwayy tells me my system sounds better than his, I spent under $5K he spent over $10K... But I demoed around and went and listened to everythng I could get my ears on... Ascend speakers , HSU subs, and emotiva amps give the best bang for your buck, IMO...

 

[moves]

overkill? Too much power you think? Isn't the VTF2 more powerful than the ULS?

 

[shadyJ]

overkill? Too much power you think? Isn't the VTF2 more powerful than the ULS?

You can compare them directly on their product pages:

ULS-15 CEA 2010 Test Result:

Tone Burst Center Frequency (Hz)	Maximum SPL
20	106.7
25	113.2
31.5	116.7
40	120.9
50	122.9
63	121.6
80	120.3

<tbody>
</tbody>

VTF-2 MK4 CEA 2010 Two Ports Open Test Result:

Tone Burst Center Frequency (Hz)	Maximum SPL
20	107.1
25	113.0
31.5	116.2
40	117.8
50	119.5
63	119.3
80	118.8

<tbody>
</tbody>

It looks like the ULS is a bit more powerful in the mid and upper bass regions, but they seem to be equal in deep bass. However these are two different kind of subs, the ULS is made for very high sound quality, and the VTF2 is made to be a very good affordable sub with lots of features. For a reference of how these different SPL relate to each other, it takes a 6 dB increase in SPL to get a doubling of volume, ie twice as loud.

 

[ImcLoud]

If you are only going for mostly ht, I would go with the vtf2 and put your money towards other things like your front 3 speakers {I don't know what your entire system looks like, but just a thought, save the money and try it out}.. I am pretty confident the vtf2 will amaze you..

 

[moves]

I am good with my mains. I got a pair of Totem Forest speakers which play surprisingly low for a single driver speaker. I have a cheap PSB image centre at the moment so I'll get the matching centre that goes with the Forests. It's called the model 1 signature centre.

I just thought maybe killing 2 birds with one stone, meaning getting both music and HT in the ULS, might be a good idea. Have you heard the ULS in HT? I've read the reviews on HSU site and they are describing the ULS as being fast as where the ported subs tend to have more "group delay" Term used is found here http://www.hsuresearch.com/reviews/SecretHomeTheaterReview.pdf . Do you find the VTF2 having this issue?

 

[ImcLoud]

no issues with the vtf2, the uls is an awesome sub, no doubt about that, I have heard it in an HT and I have heard it with 2 of them.. they are nice, and ht is a good experience, but its an expensive sub.. I don't think you would be getting a great value for ht, although it will rock...

 

[moves]

I am looking to move and if I get a condo.... then the down firing driver might be an issue for the people below me no?

 

[ImcLoud]

I am looking to move and if I get a condo.... then the down firing driver might be an issue for the people below me no?

It doesn't quite work that way, any subwoofer is going to be an issue at that point...

 

[kini]

Don't discount the SVS subs. The PB or PC 12s are great subs. They are better built and have a better warranty and arguably better amps and DSP than the VTF2s mentioned. They also have a flatter response at the expense of a little output. The flat response makes getting the most out of the sub a little easier, not as much worry about them being boomy when place in corners, etc... They also have a 45 day trial period with free shipping both ways. In addition SVS offers a full price upgrade credit (within the first year) to a bigger sub should you want one.

SVS has THE best customer service in the industry. Paying a little more for a LOT more seems like a good thing to me.

So in the end the PB or especially the PC 12 may end up being less expensive.

I just upgraded from a Def Tech sub to a PC12+ in my 1650^3 sealed off room. It is beyond awesome in its performance.

The ULS 15 apparently has issues with bottoming during heavy LFE moments (movies). The Rythmik F15 or F15HP would be a better choice for HT use, as would a PSA XS 15 if you're looking for a sealed sub.

I'd go with one PB or PC 12 and if it's not enough get another or use SVS' upgrade policy to get a PB or PC Plus.