How long do cables last?

M

MAL

Audiophyte
<font color='#000000'>I have my set of speaker cables and interconnects for over 8 years now. I feel that I need to change them. I recently bought a pair of AFA speaker cables and the sound improved by a bunch. So I am thinking about changing my interconnects as well. What do you guys think?</font>
 
P

pds

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>How Long Do Speaker Cables Last???

A pair of copper cables will last longer than your lifetime. &nbsp;They do not wear out, they do not change electrically. &nbsp; In short, replacement is never needed unless you damage the cable.</font>
 
M

MAL

Audiophyte
<font color='#000000'>So why do consumers keep buying so much cables? If cables are supposed to last a life time and changed unless its damaged, its either many people are damaging their cables often, or maybe those silly things really make a difference? &nbsp;
</font>
 
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E

EdR

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Probably worth asking why interconnects would 'wear out'? &nbsp;Could be that they run out of free electrons and needs to be recharged (oops.. just looked at the calendar and it's April second..sorry &nbsp;


Seriously, the only two things I can think of is either damaged connectors if one's been taking them on and off a lot- wires can get damaged where they go into the rigid connector, or some kind of oxidation.

Decent interconnects aren't that expensive- Parts Express sells a line called Phoenix Gold that has all kinds of neato-whizbang technology for a very reasonable price, or you can get the expensive ones on a 30 day return. &nbsp;Why don't you try it, the difference (if any) should be very obvious, and then tell us what the results are.

What kind of speaker wire did you replace? &nbsp;There might be other reasons that the new ones sound better than just the age of the old ones.</font>
 
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ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>Typically how long does it take for a copper speaker wire to oxidize?

If your ends are terminated with a banana plug or some other method, will they still oxidize&gt;?</font>
 
Shinerman

Shinerman

Senior Audioholic
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>
MAL : <font color='#000000'>So why do consumers keep buying so much cables? If cables are supposed to last a life time and changed unless its damaged, its either many people are damaging their cables often, or maybe those silly things really make a difference?  
</font>
<font color='#000000'>Aaaaarrrrggg!

You are every cable maker's dream. &nbsp;Don't fall for the hype they spew! &nbsp;

Do this, &nbsp;try and find any scientific data that proves that a particular cable effects sound to a degree that the Human ear can detect. &nbsp; I will warn you now, it will be a long long long search. &nbsp; In fifty years when your search is done, try and find some unsubstantiated (sp?) hype and promises of magical sound on a particular cable. &nbsp;Within 5 minutes you will have loads of it. &nbsp; It's called marketing! &nbsp;Nothing more. &nbsp;Cable makers make huge profits on cables and cables are easy large margin add ons for stores. &nbsp;

Shinerman</font>
 
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ThA tRiXtA

ThA tRiXtA

Full Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>I agree with what your saying to a point, but I know for a fact that metals oxidize, some faster the others, say copper or brass for example.

That is not a marketing ploy.

Whether or not this oxidization will effect sound quality or not, I do not know, but... That's why I asked.

I always read on lots &nbsp;of sites (not just retailer sites either) to properly terminate the end of your wires. There must be some value to this...</font>
 
M

MAL

Audiophyte
<font color='#000000'>I changed my signet(made in taiwan) speaker wires to a new pair of AFA speaker wires. The AFAs were about 60 bucks for 2 meters.</font>
 
P

pds

Enthusiast
<font color='#000000'>&quot;Copper Cable Oxidation&quot; &nbsp;
Virtually all the electricity in homes is provided via copper cables. &nbsp;When was the last time you saw that a home had to be rewired due to copper oxidation? &nbsp;I have motion picture equipment from the fifties that uses copper speaker cable and it works just fine. &nbsp;If you cut into that old cable, you will find the copper inside just as shiny as the day it was made. The only time copper oxidates is when exposed directly to air. &nbsp;Even your speaker connections will not oxidize if you put a light coating of vaseline on the connection. &nbsp;It will then last indefinitely and not oxidize.</font>
 
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
If the copper cable as seen through their transparent sleeves turn green over time, when it used to be reddish brown, does that mean it's gotten some oxidation or fungus? So should I replace?
 
R

ruadmaa

Banned
Shiny Copper Cables

If you want the ends of your copper cables to be really shiny like a new penny simply dunk the ends in Tarnex. This not only makes them shiny but also very clean.
 
J

jneutron

Guest
av_phile said:
If the copper cable as seen through their transparent sleeves turn green over time, when it used to be reddish brown, does that mean it's gotten some oxidation or fungus? So should I replace?
It's copper chloride...it is the result of chlorine outgassing from the Polyvinyl chloride insulation..I've stripped zip off the shelf and found it. Lord knows how long ago it had been made..

It will affect the skinning of the high frequency information..As the interstrand conductivity decreases, the skin effect will decrease. I am unaware of any scientific, repeatable, test that has discerned how that would make an audibility difference..although I personally have some hypothesis' in that respect...they are, however, just hypo's, nothing of any substance one way or the other.

I had discussed the possibility of testing this skin difference premise with Gene a while ago..but we haven't tried to persue it..

It will also affect soldering. big time.. R type flux is not very good at clearing copper chloride, mainly copper oxide. After a long time, you'd have to go with a plumbing flux to solder.

Cheers, John
 
A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
Is this good or bad? Care to share your hypothesis? If the skin effect is reduced, does that mean the cable's conductivity is better? Don't those expensive branded cables with their exotic geometries hype reduced skin effects?
 
D

Dan Banquer

Full Audioholic
Cables

If your looking for some good technical information on cables go here:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/cables.htm
it's right on this web site. As far as your corroding cables, if the corrosion is in the area of the cable that's not exposed I would think about replacing it.
If you feel like doing a little DIY you can try this:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/interconnects/DIY_speaker_cables.html
If you are having problems with interference or wish to reduce noise from interference try here:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/interconnects/bulletproofing.php

d.b.
 
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J

jneutron

Guest
av_phile said:
Is this good or bad? Care to share your hypothesis? If the skin effect is reduced, does that mean the cable's conductivity is better? Don't those expensive branded cables with their exotic geometries hype reduced skin effects?
Humans discern the direction of a sound source by level, and by timing. If two sources are center stage,ten feet away, and a foot apart sideways, a human will basically only be able to tell which is right or left of the other by the difference in arrival time between the ears, as the levels will be the same.

That timing difference will be in the 20 microsecond domain..lab testing finds that some can hear down in the 2 to 5 uSec range. Needless to say, those type of numbers are well beyond the human range max of 20Khz, but nobody really has paid much attention to signal integrity in the half Mhz area, why should we??? That timing difference, when produced on two speakers, is the true definition of soundstage...the ability of the system to fool you into thinking a source is where there is none.

Skin effect is actually very simple...all round wires have 15 nH/ft worth of inductance, simply due to the magnetic storage inside the conductor. Skin effect is the way the wire excludes the current (and resultant energy storage) from the inside of the wire...

With that inductance out of the way, transients can get to the speakers faster..if you worry only about 20Khz information, the trivial 15 nH per foot number doesn't mean anything...it's too small to worry about. But if you worry about the 2 to 5 uSec transients getting to the speaker, that 15 nH is not trivial anymore..

I don't yet know how to relate 2 uSec timing constraints to a stereo signal in a 20Khz BW system..it's a new area for me..

It is a trivial matter to buy off the shelf wire and exceed any and all the specifications being touted by those high end cable people..in time, a lot of the DIY stuff will start going that way, instead of some complex, marginal cross-coax or braided cat 5 stuff, simple off the shelf solutions will be far better..Of course, a far better high bandwidth cable may show off one's system's faults...a consequence of constantly using cables as "tone controls"..and another consequence of high bandwidth will be the inevitable capacitance increase, which some amps may not like.

I believe some of the vendors may be onto something with their cable stuff, but the actual explanations they give are usually a bunch of BS they picked up at some guru's website..totally lacking in any science or engineering, but couched in lots of doublespeak and garbage theories..

Cheers, John
 
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