How do people listen at reference?

[Squeeks716]

I have a Marantz 6006 with my system configured using audyssee and I can not run higher than about -12 for movies without hearing damage. I have SVS prime bookshelf fronts with SVS ultra center. Really curious how there are people out there listening at -5 and up. Is it different speakers? Larger rooms? My room is 12x17 with a single door.

Thanks!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

these numbers on your receiver are a bit confusing/misleading. 0 does not mean reference level, only 0 signal attenuation.
You'd need a measuring mic or atleast spl meter to know what level you're listening to.
This should give you a bit of info on what "reference level" is actually is:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013314thx-reference-level/

 

[fuzz092888]

these numbers on your receiver are a bit confusing/misleading. 0 does not mean reference level, only 0 signal attenuation.
You'd need a measuring mic or atleast spl meter to know what level you're listening to.
This should give you a bit of info on what "reference level" is actually is:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013314thx-reference-level/

So after running Audyssey 0 does not represent reference level in respect to movie soundtracks?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

So after running Audyssey 0 does not represent reference level in respect to movie soundtracks?

No, not afaik

 

[fuzz092888]

No, not afaik

The pink noise that is played during the Audyssey calibration is set to -30dbfs, which levels speakers to 75db. This represents a theoretical max SPL of 105db which is THX reference.

This is where I got my info from.

REFERENCE LEVEL

Reference level is defined for film mixing and movie theaters. Every studio and movie theater is calibrated according to this level. It represents an average of 85dB for the regular speakers on the SPL meter (set on C weighting and Slow) using a band limited (500Hz to 2,000Hz) pink noise at the listening position. The peak level is set 20dB higher at 105db and the LFE peak level is set +10dB higher to a maximum of 115dB. The purpose of the +10 dB gain for the LFE channel is to increase the dynamic range of bass sound such as explosions and crashes. This means when the receiver master volume is set to 0dB, the regular speakers are expected to play a peak level of 105dB and the subwoofer is expected to produce a peak output level of 115dB. This is louder than most people can tolerate, so people normally set the master volume much lower than 0 when watching movies or listening to music. Furthermore, such loud bass level places a heavy burden on the subwoofer and requires multiple high-end subwoofers to produce it accurately.

Because 85dBC test tones can be very loud in a small home theater room and can damage hearing, receiver manufacturers through the encouragement by Dolby and THX decided that a reasonable test-tone level is 75dB and that is the level that most receivers use.

To summarize,

• Reference Level is 1.85v line level = 0dB VU meter = 85db playback level.
• 105dB Peak level = 0dB (Full Scale).
• 85dB Average Level = -20dB (Full Scale).
• 75dB Average Reference Level = -30dB (Full Scale).
• dBFS (Full Scale) = unit of measure for the amplitude of digital audio signals.
• The reference level is "0" dBFS, which is also the maximum signal amplitude that can be stored digitally in a typical digital audio recording system.
• Signals louder than 0dBFS just produce clipping (truncation of the waveform, hence distortion).

When calibrating your audio system, the receiver plays pink noise that is recorded at 75dB (-30dB FS). When the individual speaker levels are set to 75dB at the listening position, as measured by an SPL meter, the effects of speaker sensitivity and room acoustics are accounted for and the speakers are all level-matched against the Reference Level.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=159948

From Chris Kyriakakis

Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73283-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

 

[Squeeks716]

This makes sense, I just always thought that the point of running negative db up to 0 was after audyssee setup 0 was considered reference.

 

[Steve81]

Really curious how there are people out there listening at -5 and up.

A few things come to mind:
1. Obviously if your system can't play to reference level cleanly, you're not going to enjoy it.

2. The liveliness of your room impacts the apparent loudness of your system.

3. The material itself also has an impact. Some mixers use the dynamic range available to them to create spectacular effects, leaving the rest of the soundtrack at a more natural level. Others just mix everything to an obnoxiously loud level, to the point where some effects clip badly.

4. Personal preference. Somebody likes to sit front and center at rock concerts, right?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The pink noise that is played during the Audyssey calibration is set to -30dbfs, which levels speakers to 75db. This represents a theoretical max SPL of 105db which is THX reference.

This is where I got my info from.



http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=159948

From Chris Kyriakakis



https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73283-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

Here's a great post on our own forums, not surprisingly this issue has been brought up many times before:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/volume-display-0db-reference-level-how-is-it-all-related.68081/

 

[Hocky]

It really depends on the movie or track as to how dynamic it is. Something that is very highly compressed could be loud as hell at -20db. A very dynamic track could be played at 0db and only be loud at peaks as intended.

 

[fuzz092888]

Here's a great post on our own forums, not surprisingly this issue has been brought up many times before:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/volume-display-0db-reference-level-how-is-it-all-related.68081/

As far as I can tell the post you link and the stuff I linked are saying the same thing. IOW, for movie soundtracks that adhere to the THX standard, after Audyssey calibration and using the relative scale, when set to "0" you are listening to a reference playback of the movie soundtrack, at least as far as the source signal goes. Whether a person's system is capable of reproducing that is another story.

 

[BlwnAway]

Reference volume is not for listening, it's for calibration and to have a standard in the industry for mixing and setup, otherwise soundtracks would be even more all over the place than the are now.

In a nutshell it's nothing more than what it is defined as, a point of "reference".