How do I correct my soft sounding center speaker?

[AndrewLyles]

I was watching a movie tonight, "The Matrix Revolutions", and noticed that my center channel speaker seams quiet compared to the rest of my system. This isn't a new realization mind you, I've noticed this for a while now, but it's starting to bother me. I tend to get clearer, more understandlbe dialog running in stereo mode and thanks to great imaging it's projected right where it should be underneath the TV. Is there a way to improve the sound from my center? I've checked the levels using my RS SPL and everything is where it should be. Any thoughts or ideas? Is this related to the fact that my receiver sucks and I need to replace the amps or something else?
Thanks!

 

[MDS]

It's more related to the average level of the dialog in the movie. The Matrix series certainly has lots of huge explosions so the majority of the dialog is quiet to leave room for the unexpected shocks.

You can experiment with placement a bit or just turn up the center level slightly. Most receivers allow you to change the channel levels on the fly but will then revert to the saved settings when it is turned off, so no worries about messing up the calibration that works ok enough for other movies.

Note also that if you have 6.1 or 7.1 you can use PLIIx Music mode for 5.1 Dolby Digital soundtracks. PLII/IIx has settings called 'center width' and 'dimension' that can improve the center channel sound. The center width allows you to send more or less info to the center (spreading the rest to the front speakers) and dimension allows you to move the soundfield forward or backward - moving it forward helps if the center is slightly behind the plane of the front speakers or the center sounds 'recessed'.

 

[mnnc]

It's more related to the average level of the dialog in the movie. The Matrix series certainly has lots of huge explosions so the majority of the dialog is quiet to leave room for the unexpected shocks.

You can experiment with placement a bit or just turn up the center level slightly. Most receivers allow you to change the channel levels on the fly but will then revert to the saved settings when it is turned off, so no worries about messing up the calibration that works ok enough for other movies.

Note also that if you have 6.1 or 7.1 you can use PLIIx Music mode for 5.1 Dolby Digital soundtracks. PLII/IIx has settings called 'center width' and 'dimension' that can improve the center channel sound. The center width allows you to send more or less info to the center (spreading the rest to the front speakers) and dimension allows you to move the soundfield forward or backward - moving it forward helps if the center is slightly behind the plane of the front speakers or the center sounds 'recessed'.

Would you not have to select the 2ch/stereo soundtrack in movie set-up menu in order to decode using PLII or PLIIx ? Which would be matrixed sound vs a true dedicated 5.1 soundtrack? That confuses me. I too feel that in many movies the dialogue is not as loud/audible as it should be when effects volume scare you through the other spkr's.

 

[MDS]

Would you not have to select the 2ch/stereo soundtrack in movie set-up menu in order to decode using PLII or PLIIx ?

You would have to select the 2 channel track (whether it is DD 2.0 or PCM won't matter) to use PLII if you have only 5.1 speakers. If you only have 5.1 speakers, you cannot use PLII on DD 5.1 because the signal is already 5.1 and the receiver will just use the DD decoder.

If you have 6.1 or 7.1, you can use PLIIx to convert DD 5.1 (or any 2 channel format) to 6.1 or 7.1.

Now if you don't actually have 6.1 or 7.1 you can always lie to your receiver and tell it you do so that PLIIx Music mode will be available for use with DD 5.1 tracks.

 

[AndrewLyles]

Thanks for the suggestion and it sounds like a good one, but my rig is a bit to antiquated for that so I"ll just have to boost the levels. I was watching TV tonight, not 5.1, and did notice that dialog was much clearer than on the movie earlier. This could be because I was forcing a stereo track through the center speaker using my surround mode but I'll have to play around with the settings more than likely. This only makes the upgrade bug bite that harder...why wont Axiom release their new amp so I can pull the trigger? Oh well, back to angst I suppose.
Thanks for the help though, as always I'm much obliged!
~Andrew

 

[Nick250]

Even though you have level matched the speakers, bump up the center level to where it sounds right for you. That's what I wound do. Your manual level settings are an approximation in any case. Your are not in an acoustically perfect room using perfect leveling equipment where you can perfectly match the levels.

Nick

 

[AndrewLyles]

Even though you have level matched the speakers, bump up the center level to where it sounds right for you. That's what I wound do. Your manual level settings are an approximation in any case. Your are not in an acoustically perfect room using perfect leveling equipment where you can perfectly match the levels.

Nick

THanks for the advice. That kind of seems like a pain in the wazzu to have to relevel for every different movie...especially because my receiver isn't able to save multiple settings. I'm guessing this is the nature of the beast though once you reach a certain level of obsession right? Also, doens't this change the inteded sound that the recording engineers put into the tracks? Not that I'm complaining about taht becasue if I can't understand what's being said then the engineer didn't do that good of a job.

 

[Nuglets]

THanks for the advice. That kind of seems like a pain in the wazzu to have to relevel for every different movie...especially because my receiver isn't able to save multiple settings. I'm guessing this is the nature of the beast though once you reach a certain level of obsession right? Also, doens't this change the inteded sound that the recording engineers put into the tracks? Not that I'm complaining about taht becasue if I can't understand what's being said then the engineer didn't do that good of a job.

What he means is that you should bump the level up on the center channel (just once, not for every different movie) because if the room is not acoustically perfect it will introduce resonances that will make precise level matching nearly impossible. When you watch a movie and say the dialog is around frequency 'x' but your room resonates at some other frequencies, when you measure the pink noise with the SPL meter it will detect 75dB, or whatever your pink noise reference is set to, as soon as the loudest resonant frequency reaches 75dB. This will cause the average level to be lower than it should because some frequencies are much louder than they should be. In a treated room where resonances are minimized you will get a more accurate average reading of 75dB at all frequencies the speaker can reproduce.

Most sound engineering, I'm assuming, happens in an acoustically treated room so when the movie is played back in a room that resonates at many different frequencies it will sound much different than it was meant to. The closer your room gets to perfection, the closer it will sound to the way it is meant, assuming the engineering was done satisfactory and your speakers have a flat frequency response. Hope this makes sense.

 

[AndrewLyles]

What he means is that you should bump the level up on the center channel (just once, not for every different movie) because if the room is not acoustically perfect it will introduce resonances that will make precise level matching nearly impossible. When you watch a movie and say the dialog is around frequency 'x' but your room resonates at some other frequencies, when you measure the pink noise with the SPL meter it will detect 75dB, or whatever your pink noise reference is set to, as soon as the loudest resonant frequency reaches 75dB. This will make every other frequency sound quieter when in reality it may be just that a few frequencies are louder than they should be. In a treated room where resonances are minimized you will get a more accurate average reading of 75dB at all frequencies the speaker can reproduce.

Most sound engineering, I'm assuming, happens in an acoustically treated room so when the movie is played back in a room that resonates at many different frequencies it will sound much different than it was meant to sound. The closer your room gets to perfection, the closer it will sound to the way it is meant, assuming the engineering was done satisfactory and your speakers have a flat frequency response. Hope this makes sense.

Absolutely...I've measured my room using just the mains for frequency responsse, but have never really done it for the other speakers in my system. SO the question becomes this then...to really get a good feel for how my system performs in the room I should measure the frequecy response of every speaker in the system. Unplug the rest from the amp and do them one at a time...that should help me understand which speakers are having diffictuly with what frequecies, and adjust the levels accordingly as well as plan the addition of accoustic treatments accordingly. Correct?

 

[Nuglets]

Absolutely...I've measured my room using just the mains for frequency responsse, but have never really done it for the other speakers in my system. SO the question becomes this then...to really get a good feel for how my system performs in the room I should measure the frequecy response of every speaker in the system. Unplug the rest from the amp and do them one at a time...that should help me understand which speakers are having diffictuly with what frequecies, and adjust the levels accordingly as well as plan the addition of accoustic treatments accordingly. Correct?

That is what I would do if I could. Also though, due to interactions caused by more than one speaker playing at the same time you will probably want to get a measurement with all speakers playing to see how that affects the response as well.

 

[AndrewLyles]

That is what I would do if I could. Also though, due to interactions caused by more than one speaker playing at the same time you will probably want to get a measurement with all speakers playing to see how that affects the response as well.

Good to know. I started playing with the Rives CD today but haven't taken any measurements yet. That will have to wait for a weekend with more availbe free time. I always forget about the Mapleshades tracks at the end which are incredible. I've been browsing their site this afternoon trying to find a couple worth ordering.