Hot Gossip about Sound United and Dirac

[lovinthehd]

Just saw this, could be interesting.... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/big-news-coming-from-sound-united-in-2023.33059/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just saw this, could be interesting.... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/big-news-coming-from-sound-united-in-2023.33059/

Wow. That would be huge. If Denon/Marantz offer both Audyssey and Dirac and Yamaha still holds on to YPAO, I can see Yamaha losing some customers to DM.

 

[lovinthehd]

Let alone any newcomer to the scene with something yet better/cooler/hyped ? I've never seen much to attract me to YPAO otoh, but then again maybe they'll license it to everyone and it could even be selectable ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Let alone any newcomer to the scene with something yet better/cooler/hyped ? I've never seen much to attract me to YPAO otoh, but then again maybe they'll license it to everyone and it could even be selectable ?

I love Yamaha, but not any of their DSP or YPAO.

It would be groundbreaking to have multiple user-selectable ARC software (XT32 vs Dirac).

I didn’t think that was even doable since nobody has ever offered more than one type of ARC software in the same AVR/AVP.

If this is true and that new CEO has a hand in it, man, he would get Audio-CEO of the Year award.

 

[ryanosaur]

That would definitely be a plume added to the next release from the D&M team, whatever they may call themselves.
So many people are interested in Dirac, now. They have become the selling point du jour. That Onkyo got them into some of their gear sealed the deal in a way.
Frankly, I think room correction should become an add on to the equipment. Not because some people don't want it, but because you could in theory target the system you want through customization.
All processing should perhaps be handled by PC (Mac, Windows, Linux, whatever) and have the file able to be loaded into your AVR/AVP of choice. If the final result of the RC measurement is standardized into metrics of FR, Time domain, Bass integration and Bass management, along with Target Curve capability, then users could easily shop by cost, ease of implementation or ability to customize.

Somebody over at ASR kinda whined a little it seemed based on a lack of competition.

The kicker is that many of these RCs have not improved over time. That stagnation and the drive of one company to get better isn't Lack of Competition, rather it is the result of competition!
Imagine if Trinnov put their system into a marketplace where you could choose between Aud, YPAO, DIRAC, ARC, Trinnov... anybody that wants to compete...
THAT, will drive RC providers and services to really drive innovation and perfection.

 

[PENG]

That would definitely be a plume added to the next release from the D&M team, whatever they may call themselves.
So many people are interested in Dirac, now. They have become the selling point du jour. That Onkyo got them into some of their gear sealed the deal in a way.
Frankly, I think room correction should become an add on to the equipment. Not because some people don't want it, but because you could in theory target the system you want through customization.
All processing should perhaps be handled by PC (Mac, Windows, Linux, whatever) and have the file able to be loaded into your AVR/AVP of choice. If the final result of the RC measurement is standardized into metrics of FR, Time domain, Bass integration and Bass management, along with Target Curve capability, then users could easily shop by cost, ease of implementation or ability to customize.

Somebody over at ASR kinda whined a little it seemed based on a lack of competition.

The kicker is that many of these RCs have not improved over time. That stagnation and the drive of one company to get better isn't Lack of Competition, rather it is the result of competition!
Imagine if Trinnov put their system into a marketplace where you could choose between Aud, YPAO, DIRAC, ARC, Trinnov... anybody that wants to compete...
THAT, will drive RC providers and services to really drive innovation and perfection.

I think the D+M Dirac Live thing will happen eventually regardless the current rumor. Audyssey waited too long to launch MultEQ X. The $20 App could have been a deal of the century if they had included the option to do the custom target with the option to use a keyboard (should be able to do it via a pop up screen) instead of that stupid finger drawing thing. As it is now, that feature is almost useless for most people.

D+M will probably start to switch to DL for the higher models only, typically they use pre outs as the dividing line (on the Denon side anyway). That would be smart from cost standpoint.

In my opinion, not only YPAO, Anthem's ARC will be next unless that switch to the open license approach.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think the D+M Dirac Live thing will happen eventually regardless the current rumor. Audyssey waited too long to launch MultEQ X. The $20 App could have been a deal of the century if they had included the option to do the custom target with the option to use a keyboard (should be able to do it via a pop up screen) instead of that stupid finger drawing thing. As it is now, that feature is almost useless for most people.

D+M will probably start to switch to DL for the higher models only, typically they use pre outs as the dividing line (on the Denon side anyway). That would be smart from cost standpoint.

In my opinion, not only YPAO, Anthem's ARC will be next unless that switch to the open license approach.

You think all 3 D/M, Yamaha and Anthem will eventually offer Dirac on their higher end models?

That would make things way too easy for everyone.

 

[PENG]

You think all 3 D/M, Yamaha and Anthem will eventually offer Dirac on their higher end models?

That would make things way too easy for everyone.

I would say yes, that Dirac will soon become the next Audyssey for a variety of reasons, cost being a big one. As they gain popularity on the AVR/AVP side, they are becoming cost effective. You can see that now with Onkyo and Pioneer offering them, so if Onkyo/Pioneer can afford, so can Sound United.

By the way, recently I came across someone who seems very knowledgeable and neutral (not 100% as always) in assessing the pros and cons of YPAP, AARC, DL and Audyssey. The only thing he said they cause me to pause and think a little is that he praised YPAP, if not that I would have valued his opinions at least 2X more. Other that that, there isn't much he commented that I would disagree.

This gentleman is now offering tips and helps, including tweaking tools/UIs at affordable price. I am tempted to try one just to satisfy my curiosity.

Here's link to his website if you are interested:
Dirac Live vs Audyssey vs YPAO R.S.C. – Simple Home Cinema

 

[Ninamedina]

That would definitely be a plume added to the next release from the D&M team, whatever they may call themselves.
So many people are interested in Dirac, now. They have become the selling point du jour. That Onkyo got them into some of their gear sealed the deal in a way.
Frankly, I think room correction should become an add on to the equipment. Not because some people don't want it, but because you could in theory target the system you want through customization.
All processing should perhaps be handled by PC (Mac, Windows, Linux, whatever) and have the file able to be loaded into your AVR/AVP of choice. If the final result of the RC measurement is standardized into metrics of FR, Time domain, Bass integration and Bass management, along with Target Curve capability, then users could easily shop by cost, ease of implementation or ability to customize.

Somebody over at ASR kinda whined a little it seemed based on a lack of competition.

The kicker is that many of these RCs have not improved over time. That stagnation and the drive of one company to get better isn't Lack of Competition, rather it is the result of competition!
Imagine if Trinnov put their system into a marketplace where you could choose between Aud, YPAO, DIRAC, ARC, Trinnov... anybody that wants to compete...
THAT, will drive RC providers and services to really drive innovation and perfection.

Regardless of the current rumour, I believe the D+M Dirac Live event will take place at some point. MultEQ X was delayed much too long by Audyssey. If they had added the ability to perform the custom target using a keyboard (should be able to do it via a pop up panel) instead of that dumb finger painting stuff, the $20 app may have been a deal of the century. For the most part, the functionality is now worthless. More Details ? Visit This Guide.
D+M will most likely begin to employ DL exclusively for higher models, with pre outs serving as the separating line (on the Denon side anyway). From a financial sense, that would be wise.

Not just YPAO, but Anthem's ARC, in my opinion, will be next until they transition to an open licencing strategy.

 

[PENG]

The kicker is that many of these RCs have not improved over time. That stagnation and the drive of one company to get better isn't Lack of Competition, rather it is the result of competition!
Imagine if Trinnov put their system into a marketplace where you could choose between Aud, YPAO, DIRAC, ARC, Trinnov... anybody that wants to compete...
THAT, will drive RC providers and services to really drive innovation and perfection.

Sound like people choose their cars and then choose their tires to correct road conditions.

 

[PENG]

By the way, talking about choosing RC software, remember that Harman study conducted many years ago to compare RC software, and that found most people prefer the tilted bass curve? So I suggested on ASR one reason Audyssey (just an assumption by most as Harman never disclosed which was which in the study) might have done badly was because of their flat bass while others had a tilt in their default curve.

With luck, Dr. Toole did chime in:

The Pre/Pro to buy under $5000? | Page 2 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

In a way, and by my interpretation he sort of confirmed what I suspected, only partially and specifically on the "loudness" part that is...

 

[3db]

The $20 App could have been a deal of the century if they had included the option to do the custom target with the option to use a keyboard (should be able to do it via a pop up screen) instead of that stupid finger drawing thing. As it is now, that feature is almost useless for most people.

Yeah.. for anyone like me with fat arthritic fingers

 

[3db]

By the way, talking about choosing RC software, remember that Harman study conducted many years ago to compare RC software, and that found most people prefer the tilted bass curve? So I suggested on ASR one reason Audyssey (just an assumption by most as Harman never disclosed which was which in the study) might have done badly was because of their flat bass while others had a tilt in their default curve.

With luck, Dr. Toole did chime in:

The Pre/Pro to buy under $5000? | Page 2 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

In a way, and by my interpretation he sort of confirmed what I suspected, only partially and specifically on the "loudness" part that is...

I've been sold on Harmon curve ever since I've implemented it with REW and the MiniDSPs. Because human hearing is relatively insensitive in the bottom bass octaves, it makes a lot of sense to use it. I even find it very appealing with classical music giving the double bass, some added weight at the bottom end.

 

[PENG]

I've been sold on Harmon curve ever since I've implemented it with REW and the MiniDSPs. Because human hearing is relatively insensitive in the bottom bass octaves, it makes a lot of sense to use it. I even find it very appealing with classical music giving the double bass, some added weight at the bottom end.

Same here, I put a tilt in my Dirac curve too. For Audyssey, I found that I don't need the curve as much because I would just use DEQ and use the offset setting of 10 for music. YPAO supposedly has something similar to DEQ but they call it a different name and I am not sure if they automatically adjust the tilt based on the volume setting like Audyssey does.

 

[highfigh]

Now that bass & treble controls are a thing of the past on the front panel of most AVRs, the one thing I miss is Yamaha's variable Loudness control. It made sense because it wasn't an 'either/or' setting and with human hearing being less sensitive at low levels and better at high levels, it was easy to have enough compensation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Now that bass & treble controls are a thing of the past on the front panel of most AVRs, the one thing I miss is Yamaha's variable Loudness control. It made sense because it wasn't an 'either/or' setting and with human hearing being less sensitive at low levels and better at high levels, it was easy to have enough compensation.

Like Audyssey Dynamic EQ?

To me, DEQ boosts mainly the bass and a little bit on treble, with Higher magnitude when the volume is lower and less magnitude when the volume is higher.

 

[highfigh]

Like Audyssey Dynamic EQ?

To me, DEQ boosts mainly the bass and a little bit on treble, with Higher magnitude when the volume is lower and less magnitude when the volume is higher.

That's automatic- the variable loudness control was right there on the front, making it easy to walk up and adjust. Allows much easier setting for personal preference. I have to think someone could come up with a way to do this with a processor and two buttons on a remote control- most have at least two buttons that are pretty worthless, anyway.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Like Audyssey Dynamic EQ?

To me, DEQ boosts mainly the bass and a little bit on treble, with Higher magnitude when the volume is lower and less magnitude when the volume is higher.

Yep!

 

[PENG]

Yep!

I remember Audyssey had published something like that when they first launch the DEQ feature but they have since removed that and many other publications for whatever reasons apparently not long after they introduced XT32. Did you save those from before or it can still be downloaded somewhere?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I remember Audyssey had published something like that when they first launch the DEQ feature but they have since removed that and many other publications for whatever reasons apparently not long after they introduced XT32. Did you save those from before or it can still be downloaded somewhere?

I saved it from a discussion post. A couple guys were talking about the effects of Audyssey and what DEQ does. Iirc this was taken directly from the preouts, but not sure what the signal feed was. I like to share it whenever I can because it’s easy to just say DEQ is just a bass boost or similar, and it’s not really that simple. It’s also nice to illustrate how the contour changes as you get closer to MV-0, which can also give an idea about how RLO works too.
I don’t use DEQ because I use my own house curve(although I have off and on in the past), but the biggest problem for me is how it boosts the surrounds and rear heights/tops.