"Home theater" speakers vs "musical" speakers

[panteragstk]

So I've been trying to decide on what speakers to get for my HT room for a few years now (I don't jump into anything). I've looked at and auditioned many speakers from numerous manufacturers. Some are described as "musical" or "mainly for music listening" or "just for home theater". Now, I've been doing this hobby for a very long time, and I was under the impression that speakers were speakers. What I mean is if a speaker reproduces music well, it will work just fine for HT. Having said that, I used to sell A/V equipment and in one of my demo rooms there was a Klipsch Synergy setup (not that great, I know). Our demo material was usually action movies with lots of effects to showcase the system. I personally thought that system did a pretty good job of reproducing everything at a good level, while being a bit bright, was still pretty good. However, for music the towers sounded terrible to me. So that leads me to believe that some speakers can be good for HT, but not much else.

This lead me to do more research. What some seem to think is that the reason they sound good for HT is due to the horn tweeter being able to handle the peaks well without distorting. Ok, that sounds plausible. I decide that horn tweeters might be the way to go. I stumble across the HSU HB1. Gets great reviews for the most part and seems to be very good for the money. I go to find forum posts related to them and the reviews are less than stellar, but they cost $150 so how good could they really be? Then Andrew Jones decides to design a low cost set for Pioneer. My decision changes. I decide three towers for the front and bookshelf speakers for the rest. Sounds good to me, especially the price.

So, if you've made it this far I thank you, I was listening to my current setup which consists of what is in my sig. Pretty low end stuff. Sounds decent, but I'm not getting the clarity or transparency that I'm looking for. What I mean is that I want that "being there" experience that really sucks you into a movie, and my speakers are just not able to do it.

What manufacturers should I try to look at for speakers that are for 80% HT/20% music, but want something that can handle the peaks of HT without sacrificing sound quality for music? I've toyed with building my own, but I wouldn't really know what design would accomplish what I'm trying to do. I've read and re-read review after review, but never really see anything that makes me want to go out and buy something. The problem is purchasing the speakers, taking the time to mount them and calibrate them only to find I don't really like them. That's a lot of effort. I know that is the smart thing to do, but my wife will wonder why I keep swapping speakers as she thinks "it's fine" the way it is.

What do you guys think?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think the most important is the dual subs. If you have great dual subs, everything else is just a walk in the park. You can get monitors or towers. It doesn't matter much.

Harman (Revel, JBL, Infinity) & KEF are safe bets.

You have some Harman products already (Infinity & Crown). Nothing wrong with getting some Harman speakers.

 

[Steve81]

Now, I've been doing this hobby for a very long time, and I was under the impression that speakers were speakers. What I mean is if a speaker reproduces music well, it will work just fine for HT.

To offer my 2 cents, a truly great speaker should be able to handle either duty without issue; of course, most loudspeakers make compromises that may make them less suitable for one duty over the other. For example, if your goal is HT at full reference level, selecting bookshelves with a single 5" woofer and a rated sensitivity of 80dB w/ 2.83V @ 1m isn't the way to get there. Of course, on the other side of the coin you have to know what compromises you're willing to accept.

If you're after a high impact HT experience that still delivers satisfying music, some thoughts that cross my mind at the moment would be EMP Tek's E55ti, JTR, and higher end Klipsch such as their THX line. The one thing I really appreciate about the design of the JTR Triple 8 (and the E55ti to a lesser extent) is that it isn't aiming for deep extension (which should be handled by a good quality subwoofer(s)), which means it can deliver fairly high sensitivity and a ton of output with ease. I can't speak to how it sounds though (and even if I did, I wouldn't expect anyone should really care anyway), but it's perhaps worth a shot to seek them out for an audition.

 

[armando22]

I was in the same boat for a while, but my intrests are opposite 80% music 20% movies. I decided that the best option is to find a "range" of speakers, any ones that fit in your budget. That way you can find a set of front speakers that can work for both movies and music, then when you do the rest of the system can fall into place from there. Was recently auditioning-again- some Monitor Audio GX 100's. I really like them but i thought, for me, they were too unforgiving. I admit to listening to a lot of music and a lot of it not being really good recordings, and I think the GX's would bring out too much of the bad. That is a really good sign of a great speaker, but I dont know if I can live with them long term. I had previously heard the RX6's and loved them, so I think in the end I may settle on the RX Silver line for a full 5.1.
But I started my search by looking for a full system of speakers so that if and when I find what I like, I know I can fill out a full surround setup of matching speakers.

 

[j_garcia]

A good speaker is a good speaker. There is no difference. What it sounds like happened here is you bought speakers you don't like, so the KEY will be to actually go and listen to some speakers before buying again.

 

[panteragstk]

Thanks for the advice so far. I realized that in my first post I didn't give any specifics to my room, or budget.

Room: 13'x17'x8'. Couch is ~10.5' from the 120" screen. Screen is AT so the speakers will be behind (which makes finish options irrelevant). I run two rows of surrounds for both seating rows and also back speakers. Total comes to 9 speakers for my 7.1 config. I do plan to try height and width some day, but not a concern at this point.

Budget: This is kinda out there. I want things to be done so I can focus on other areas of my house, but I don't want to compromise sound quality for a quick fix. Especially since I've been looking for so many years.

I want the front 3 to be matching towers. I don't mind using a sub for 2ch music, but I would like to have full range towers that can go as low as possible within my budget. The surround and back will be direct radiating and preferably on-wall so rear ports aren't preferred.

I really like the way the E55ti towers look, but that would be a waste being behind my screen. Big Harmon fan, so JBL and infinity are on the list, but I haven't found anyone local (other than best buy) that carries them. Haven't really look all that hard though.

For the front three I'd rather not spend more than $300 each. I know that limits me, but I don't want to spend too much at this point, I've got furniture to buy, and that is wifey's priority. Surround speakers can be $100-$150 each.

So, now that you have more info, what would you look at?

 

[panteragstk]

A good speaker is a good speaker. There is no difference. What it sounds like happened here is you bought speakers you don't like, so the KEY will be to actually go and listen to some speakers before buying again.

Yep, you are correct.

 

[j_garcia]

Seriously, since you can go listen to them, providing you have a Best Buy, (and yes they get pointed out a lot lately, but for a good reason) I'd go listen to the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. They are under your budget and are pretty good speakers. If those don't meet your sound needs then we can go from there and find something else that would fit the bill.

In your noted price range though, I'd also be looking at a full setup from Ascend. I've heard them many times and they are pretty even handed with everything, so they should do well for both music and movies. CMT340SEs up front and HTM-200s or CBM-170SEs out back. They aren't towers though, but $300/ea for a tower to do full range might be pushing it anyway, so you may have to trade quality for wanting a tower. Since you only do 20% music, I'd say I'd definitely make that tradeoff.

 

[Steve81]

I don't mind using a sub for 2ch music, but I would like to have full range towers that can go as low as possible within my budget.

IMO, this would be a bit counterproductive. Not much point to spending money and trading off potential sensitivity to cover a range that should be handled by a good sub or two. I'd also second John's recommendation on Ascend. The 340s should be able to handle whatever you throw at them, within reason.

 

[panteragstk]

Seriously, since you can go listen to them, providing you have a Best Buy, (and yes they get pointed out a lot lately, but for a good reason) I'd go listen to the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. They are under your budget and are pretty good speakers. If those don't meet your sound needs then we can go from there and find something else that would fit the bill.

In your noted price range though, I'd also be looking at a full setup from Ascend. I've heard them many times and they are pretty even handed with everything, so they should do well for both music and movies. CMT340SEs up front and HTM-200s or CBM-170SEs out back.

I'm going to have to this weekend. Everyone seems so impressed I have to see for myself. Sure wish they had a better listening environment. I've always like pioneer products. My speakers were dirt cheap when I bought them oh, 16 years ago, and they keep on kicking. They don't sound terrible, but you can tell they were cheap.

Ascend piqued my interest as well. Well, tons of ID brands have honestly, but trying to figure out which will work for me is a bit of a task, hence the advice thread.

 

[panteragstk]

IMO, this would be a bit counterproductive. Not much point to spending money and trading off potential sensitivity to cover a range that should be handled by a good sub or two. I'd also second John's recommendation on Ascend. The 340s should be able to handle whatever you throw at them, within reason.

True enough. I definitely don't want to make unnecessary sacrifices for low end when I have that covered. It's just hard to get my brain out of "I shouldn't need a sub for 2ch" mode.

 

[j_garcia]

With a well integrated system (decent sub, room setup, calibrated, etc...) you shouldn't notice the difference between towers and bookshelf speakers with a sub. I also used to listen to music a lot with the sub off, and occasionally still do, but 90% of the time I have it on.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm going to go against the grain here.... I believe my deftech bp-10's sounded much better for home theatre than my old NHT 2.5i's. Conversely, the 2.5i's sounded much better for music. The bipolar design of the bp-10s opened up the sound. It gave me more a feeling of being in the scene. Whereas, 2.5i's imaged better which gave more of a stage like presence to the music.

A friend of mine had bipolar speakers which allowed switching off the rear speakers. I can't remember the brand. But it seemed to be a good compromise.

 

[TLS Guy]

With a well integrated system (decent sub, room setup, calibrated, etc...) you shouldn't notice the difference between towers and bookshelf speakers with a sub. I also used to listen to music a lot with the sub off, and occasionally still do, but 90% of the time I have it on.

Apart from a very few and expensive bookshelf speakers, I don't think that statement is true at all, unless the room is small.

I have sophisticated ways of knowing for certain where the power band is for pretty much all music sources.

I can tell you for classical. pop and HT the vast majority of the power is between 80 Hz and 2500 Hz. About 90% of the power is in that range. The reason you think it is not is that subs on the whole are very inefficient.

I'm also familiar with cheaper drivers, and most cost effective small drivers can not come close to doing justice to that power band at any decent spl. Further they just fry if you completely correct for baffle step loss. For cost effective drivers it take two drivers to correct for Baffle step loss, either as 2.5 way or MTM.

To answer the posters question, a good speaker will be happy with any source. However speakers in the affordable range have a large number of compromises. This relates to speech clarity. Only very, very good speakers can reproduce natural speech with clarity in the HT environment and also be good neutral music reproducers. The fact is this is a hard nut to crack and I spent more time than I care to think cracking it.

What I find auditioning speakers at the lower end of the market, is that they have varying degrees of shout, which addresses the speech clarity issue in the HT environment, this may or may not upset the rock and pop enthusiasts. However it is a disaster in the classical environment, especially for choral music.

When I design now I have to design for the HT and classical environment. I never consider the pop environment. However much to my surprise and slightly to my annoyance it is the schools of pop music and mix engineers in the pop/rock realm that like to use this system. This not withstanding that their establishments are heavily populated by speakers from famous brands, noted for their use in that environment. None of those speakers would I ever purchase or listen to.

So I have found that a good speaker can hold its own whatever the source.

 

[zieglj01]

Well, tons of ID brands have honestly, but trying to figure out which will work for me is a bit of a task, hence the advice thread.

The Best way to test speakers is in your home, for a trial period - even the new Pioneer speakers

HTD is also a good option - for both music and movies. They are having a 10% off sale till February 4
HTD Level THREE Speakers

http://www.htd.com/About-Us-HTD/14th-Anniversary

 

[ousooner2]

Apart from a very few and expensive bookshelf speakers, I don't think that statement is true at all, unless the room is small.

I have sophisticated ways of knowing for certain where the power band is for pretty much all music sources.

I can tell you for classical. pop and HT the vast majority of the power is between 80 Hz and 2500 Hz. About 90% of the power is in that range. The reason you think it is not is that subs on the whole are very inefficient.

I'm also familiar with cheaper drivers, and most cost effective small drivers can not come close to doing justice to that power band at any decent spl. Further they just fry if you completely correct for baffle step loss. For cost effective drivers it take two drivers to correct for Baffle step loss, either as 2.5 way or MTM.

To answer the posters question, a good speaker will be happy with any source. However speakers in the affordable range have a large number of compromises. This relates to speech clarity. Only very, very good speakers can reproduce natural speech with clarity in the HT environment and also be good neutral music reproducers. The fact is this is a hard nut to crack and I spent more time than I care to think cracking it.

What I find auditioning speakers at the lower end of the market, is that they have varying degrees of shout, which addresses the speech clarity issue in the HT environment, this may or may not upset the rock and pop enthusiasts. However it is a disaster in the classical environment, especially for choral music.

Have you ever had the chance to audition/listen to the EMP e55ti's? You seem to be well respected and knowledgeable and when talking about moreso "budget" speakers, MTM's, etc...just wondering what your thoughts on the e55ti's were if you'd had the chance

The Best way to test speakers is in your home, for a trial period - even the new Pioneer speakers

HTD is also a good option - for both music and movies. They are having a 10% off sale till February 4
HTD Level THREE Speakers

Happy 14th Anniversary HTD!!!

This is also a good possibility OP. I hear they're more of a not so in your face horn like most. Too bad I can't find anyone in OK that has these or anything else to listen to


Also OP....I'm not sure where you're at in TX, but if you make your way up to OKC anytime soon you're more than welcome to have a listen.

 

[psbfan9]

I really like the way the E55ti towers look, but that would be a waste being behind my screen. Big Harmon fan, so JBL and infinity are on the list, but I haven't found anyone local (other than best buy) that carries them. Haven't really look all that hard though.

I was going to also suggest the EMP 55ti's. I like mine for both music and movies. 90% music, 10% movies/tv. If floor standers are not an option because of height restrictions, I would suggest either DefTech SM 55 or SM 65.

I own DefTech SM 450's and like them. I used them as fronts before getting the EMP's. Now they serve as surrounds.

Newegg.com - Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 450 Bookshelf Speaker (Black) Pair

I have never heard them, but NHT speakers get good reviews. NHT Classic 3 at $399.00 and Classic two on sale for $299.00 until 2-04-13.

High End Speakers & Stereo Equipment | Subwoofers, Home Theater Systems

 

[panteragstk]

Also OP....I'm not sure where you're at in TX, but if you make your way up to OKC anytime soon you're more than welcome to have a listen.

Very nice of you. Thanks. I'm in DFW so not too terribly far.

I do agree the only real way to tell is auditioning in the room they will live in. Only way to do it correctly, you never know how they will sound until you get them in-room.

I think you guys have given me a good strategy. I'm going to audition some and decide on the front 3. Once I make my decision and am happy with it (I will be, almost anything is better than what I have) I'll grab the surround speakers after that point.

You guys have been very helpful, and I'm glad to know my head was somewhat in the right place. I'll probably go to BB after work today to check out the pioneers.

 

[zieglj01]

I'm in DFW so not too terribly far.

I do agree the only real way to tell is auditioning in the room they will live in. Only way to do it correctly, you never know how they will sound until you get them in-room.

I think you guys have given me a good strategy. I'm going to audition some and decide on the front 3.

HTD is also in your area - and they can demo them.

 

[Grador]

I've found that I somewhat like less perfect speakers in HT applications. Though a good speaker is a good speaker and will do well in all instances, a livelier speaker with some excessive decay times in the midrange (not good for music) can make a more for a more enthralling experience. The problem with this though is that it detracts from films that have very well done soundtracks. If someone put a lot of time and energy into putting realistic ambiance the inaccuracy of the speakers will ruin it in this case.