Home theater receiver tone controls?

[brianm]

I’m not a pro-audio guy so here’s my dumb question...

Which decent (under $1,000) home theater receivers have built-in tone controls that go beyond just a single bass and treble control? I currently have an Outlaw Audio 1050 that I’m selling on ebay and am thinking of upgrading to their new 1070 model or something else. However, the old Outlaw receiver and even the new one only have a single bass and single treble control, which really doesn’t give much flexibility in adjusting the tone.

I found this out after I had purchased a beautiful old (analog) Pioneer SX-1050 receiver for my son. This seventies receiver has two bass controls (50Hz & 100Hz), two treble controls (10kHz & 20kHz) and also a loudness switch, and even a mute switch which doesn’t actually shut the volume but puts it way down so you can answer the phone and then still remember that the receiver was on after your call is over. It also has a tone override switch to turn on and off the tone controls to hear the before and after effects.

So is there a decent home theater receiver under $1K that has more extensive tone controls then just a single bass and single treble control? Or do I need to get an equalizer or something else?

Thanks,

- Brian

 

[Nomo]

All of the HT recievers, at least all to my knowledge, have their own internal EQ. Usually a five to seven band for each channel. The complexity of it varies depending on the price but for $500 bucks or less a decent EQ is standard equipment. The main reason is the multi channel formats and the newer recievers' lack of a "tape loop" virtually obsolete the old stereo analog graphic equalizers.

 

[newfmp3]

sorry, but most ht receivers do NOT have an eq. It's only right now we are seeing more products being introduced that have eq's built in. Heck, my nad t773 which lists well over 2 grand canadian only has bass/treble controls and not even a loudness button....hence why I'm trying to get a 4600 to replace it.

hk 635, denon 3805, denon 3806, 4806 and up. Newer Yamaha's, bla bla, just make sure the one your looking at has an eq. Automatic room adjustment does not always means EQ either. That just adjusts speaker distances and in my opinion is a total gimmick that I don't care for. Anyone can use a measuring tape.

 

[MDS]

As has been said, most HT receivers do not have more than a simple bass and treble control and I haven't seen any with a loudness button in a long time. The loudness button is just a bass boost, usually at a fixed frequency that is just a little lower than the frequency covered by the normal bass control knob.

Many of the mid-range receivers do however have the mute feature that Pioneer has. You can set the mute to attenuate the volume by a certain amount like 20 dB or 40 dB or have it mute completely.

 

[brianm]

With all the computerized sound processing in today’s receivers, I find it hard to believe that better, flexible, tone controls aren’t standard. Isn’t that something they could have just programmed into the software?

In any event, if I buy a 7.1 receiver that doesn’t have an EQ built in, is there an inexpensive way to add one?

- Brian

 

[brian32672]

As has been said, most HT receivers do not have more than a simple bass and treble control and I haven't seen any with a loudness button in a long time. The loudness button is just a bass boost, usually at a fixed frequency

Well, hum glad I can be of assistance. The Pioneer VSX-1015tx which can be had for 400.00 Has a loudness button. But what it does is add 10db to the sub. It also has just the opposite, a midnight mode that will cut 10db. Also it has a setting that if you set your fronts to large it has a setting that is called sub plus which will add 10db. It also has seperate eq for each channel (all 7) and the typical crossover settings for the sub 50,80,100, etc.. Also its THX certified

 

[Snap]

For under a grand you are in the ball park for a lot of good Receivers that has EQ's. Some are already mentioned. And most have an EQ for each of the 7 Chan! The Denon 3805 can be had for well under the 1000 buck limit.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

An eq is your best tone control

With all the computerized sound processing in today’s receivers, I find it hard to believe that better, flexible, tone controls aren’t standard. Isn’t that something they could have just programmed into the software?

Actually, they do, but they choose the eq setting for you - you are not allowed to flex the controls - DSP modes. You know, the jazz club, hall, stadium, etc... Personally, I avoid them. All they seem to do is add some degree of reverb and an overabundance of bass. As was mentioned earlier, some units have internal eq's (see photo below) that you can adjust with an on screen display. My Denon 3805 has a fairly decent one (8 band), but IMO doesn't offer the same flexibility as the older 10 band eq's. The plus is that you can tailor the eq to each channel (on the 3805). See pages 6 and 7 of this review: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Denon-AVR3805_review06.php

In any event, if I buy a 7.1 receiver that doesn’t have an EQ built in, is there an inexpensive way to add one?

You can set an older 10 band graphic eq between your cd player and the cd "in" rca's on the receiver or amp, but you cannot utilize multi channel equalization with a two band eq (unless you choose a dsp mode as opposed to a dolby/digital mode). Keep in mind you are only eq'ing the cd player. Another way to eq all channels is to add an eq between your pre-outs on the receiver/preamp and each channel on a dedicated amp.

As NomoSony said earlier, the lack of a tape loop tape monitor switch limits the efficient use of an external eq. I was able to loop an older 2 channel 10 band eq though the tape in/out on my Denon 3805, and run it through zone two, controlling zone one. I was then able to eq the FM station (as well as other analog sources), but the hassle to get to that point is too time consuming. Zone 2 and 3 on the denon does not allow for digital sound reproduction, so analog is the limit - bad design IMO.

The only logical way to eq all channels in a surround setup is to either take advantage of the internal eq in a receiver, such as the Denon 3805, or purchase separates and run an eq between your pre outs and an external amplifier. Behringer makes a three band graphic/parametric eq with loads of flexibility, but you'll need another 4 band eq. I suggest somethign like this: http://www.multi-mediasolutions.com/home-theater/Home+Theater+Systems+_5/AudioControl+Audio+Systems+_6/AudioControl+Bijou+-+AudioControl+Processor+_10/

Photo of the Denon's 8 band eq "on screen display"

 

[Resident Loser]

Which is my complaint about...

I’m not a pro-audio guy so here’s my dumb question...

Which decent (under $1,000) home theater receivers have built-in tone controls that go beyond just a single bass and treble control? I currently have an Outlaw Audio 1050 that I’m selling on ebay and am thinking of upgrading to their new 1070 model or something else. However, the old Outlaw receiver and even the new one only have a single bass and single treble control, which really doesn’t give much flexibility in adjusting the tone.

I found this out after I had purchased a beautiful old (analog) Pioneer SX-1050 receiver for my son. This seventies receiver has two bass controls (50Hz & 100Hz), two treble controls (10kHz & 20kHz) and also a loudness switch, and even a mute switch which doesn’t actually shut the volume but puts it way down so you can answer the phone and then still remember that the receiver was on after your call is over. It also has a tone override switch to turn on and off the tone controls to hear the before and after effects.

So is there a decent home theater receiver under $1K that has more extensive tone controls then just a single bass and single treble control? Or do I need to get an equalizer or something else?

Thanks,

- Brian

...HT in general...the advent of the whole HT thing has killed those kind of features...and you can't even find such things in current 2ch. offerings...I know, I've searched high and low...my old Pioneer SA-9100 integrated had those features and more...now you have all the(what I consider useless) "bells-and-whistles" required to bring the laser-totin' lizards into your living room; all at the expense of component flexibility and other "nice-eties".

And on the other extreme, you have the high-enders who run screaming and kicking at the mere thought of tone controls...soooo...many components have no such facilities whatsoever. An EQ may be your answer BUT, it will require some judicious use and a certain amount of restraint. Too much boost might cause problems with certain HT processor functions(or so I've read)...you will have to figure out where in the signal path such a device's placement would be optimum.

That being said, I believe many of the upper-end HT receivers do have room EQing functions that will set the "best" tonal balance based on whatever parameters the manu. has seen fit to use...So, unless you're trying to loosen the brickwork or cause neighborhood dogs to flee yelping on a continual basis, theoretically those simple bass and tone controls may be sufficient for the odd timbral tweek as required by poor program material.

jimHJJ(...did I mention my dislike of HT?...)

 

[newfmp3]

Sometimes a tape loop is not even helpful. I have, at least for another little while a Nad t773 until the 4600 gets here. If i stick a eq in the tape loop, the good news is that it does work for all non-digital sources. RAdio, tape, cd etc.

The bad news is that it does not use the sub this way, and NO surround modes work at all...none, notta, zip. Not even enhanced stereo yet alone plain old dolby pro logic. You can flick through all the modes, but they all sound the same. So Tape Loop is rendered useless.

In the case of the nad, it also has external loops in the back for each channel. Something i wish all amps had. So, you can take out the jumper for each channel, and put an eq straight into the receiver and you won't need external amps. This works for EVERYTHING and the surround modes, and digital 5.1/7.1 work fine because your eq's after the processing. BUT, there's always a BUT, at least with the EQ that I used, a Kenwood 7020 graphic eq, this method created more hiss then in the days of cassette's. Perhaps a Behringer would not create hiss, perhaps it would. If the Yamaha I have ordered does not impress me, I'll keep the nad, and go the behringer route but it's an expensive thing to order only to hook it up and find it hisses as well.

Bottom line is, why a $2000 amp this day and age does not have at least a 7 band eq in it is beyond me. It's simple software that is all. Now in my case i was lead to believe the NAD had this Amazing sound and I would NEVER EVER need a eq. Well, I was looking for an eq within 30 seconds of turning it on. weak Bass, too much mids, and not enough highs. Makes my Axiom m80's sound like F#@#$% Bose. Now with an eq, it sounds amazing. Luckily I'm dealing with a good store that their taking good care of my situation.

 

[Mort Corey]

As far as the original question goes, I can't recall using the bass or treble nobs on any receiver since high school (which was a while ago). I'm not sure if my last couple of units have even had a loudness button.

Mort

 

[eirepaul]

Your simplest solution is to get a HT receiver with manual EQ for each channel - then you can tweak the sound to your heart's content without interfering with any of the surround processing. It works very well on the Denon 3805 although I don't use it much. It also has bass and treble controls for overall tweaking. It's best to use EQ minimally though or there is potential to make things worse. Bear in mind, if your system is really good, some music content will not sound so good because it just isn't, and your system is revealing that.

 

[brianm]

Thanks for all the good info on this topic. As usual what I thought was a simple problem actually gets quite complex in the details.

This all came about because I’m selling my old HT receiver which only had bass and treble control (but which I had previously been very happy with the sound quality, especially while watching DVD movies). Anyway, I had packed up the HT receiver ready to ship it off, and put my son’s vintage 70’s-era Pioneer (SX-1050) receiver in place as our temporary (2 channel) receiver (needless to say my son wasn’t very happy about this! He’s 10.).

So I put a CD on and started playing with the tone controls and was blown away by the newfound extra bass which was something that my HT (modern) receiver didn’t have. Part of the problem that I now realize is that I don’t have a subwoofer. My setup is two large classic ADS L810’s in the front, and small classic ADS L300C’s for the center, right and left surround and rear center. For movies the sound is awesome, however, for CD’s and FM radio the Pioneer actually sounds much better then the HT receiver that I’m replacing.

Needless to say, now I really miss the old analog receivers with their brushed aluminum knobs, push button source selects, and toggle switches – and of course the easy to adjust and flexible tone controls!

- Brian

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Thanks for all the good info on this topic. As usual what I thought was a simple problem actually gets quite complex in the details.

This all came about because I’m selling my old HT receiver which only had bass and treble control (but which I had previously been very happy with the sound quality, especially while watching DVD movies). Anyway, I had packed up the HT receiver ready to ship it off, and put my son’s vintage 70’s-era Pioneer (SX-1050) receiver in place as our temporary (2 channel) receiver (needless to say my son wasn’t very happy about this! He’s 10.).

So I put a CD on and started playing with the tone controls and was blown away by the newfound extra bass which was something that my HT (modern) receiver didn’t have. Part of the problem that I now realize is that I don’t have a subwoofer. My setup is two large classic ADS L810’s in the front, and small classic ADS L300C’s for the center, right and left surround and rear center. For movies the sound is awesome, however, for CD’s and FM radio the Pioneer actually sounds much better then the HT receiver that I’m replacing.

Needless to say, now I really miss the old analog receivers with their brushed aluminum knobs, push button source selects, and toggle switches – and of course the easy to adjust and flexible tone controls!

- Brian

Brian,

I'm a huge fan of the old Pioneer units. I'm not surprised at all the sound is much better out of that vintage unit. It has twice the power, and that power relates to clean, efficient bass reproduction. My old Pioneer SX-680 put out some of the best quality sound I can remember. I describe the sound as having more depth, and punch than todays circuitboards. If I can find a SX-1980 or 1280 on ebay for a reasonable price, I'll replace my older Yamaha two channel unit from the 80's. They do fetch a healthy dollar anymore. Did you get the 1050 for a reasonable price? That's one lucky 10 year old! Check out this site:
http://www.silverpioneer.netfirms.com/sx-1980.htm

 

[brendy]

My Onkyo 602 has a 5 band EQ for each channel & a 3 band for the sub channel.

 

[brianm]

Buckeye,

I bought it on ebay for about $200. and was lucky enough to be able to meet the seller and pick it up locally as he was nearby. I didn't want to buy some cheap all-digital stereo reciver, so I decided to go vintage.

Why can't they make a HT reciever with a bunch of knobs and buttons and toggle switches and blue and amber lights and a manual fm tuning scale with a silky smooth tuning knob and flywheel and analog power and signal meters? Like in the good old days... And of course with all the computerized wiz bang sound shaping stuff and remote control also.

- Brian

 

[jaxvon]

I know McIntosh makes stuff like that, though maybe minus the silky analog FM tuner (I love those things...only way to go IMHO).

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=15&cat=&prodid=1052&product=MHT200

 

[Thunder18]

Well, hum glad I can be of assistance. The Pioneer VSX-1015tx which can be had for 400.00 Has a loudness button. But what it does is add 10db to the sub. It also has just the opposite, a midnight mode that will cut 10db. Also it has a setting that if you set your fronts to large it has a setting that is called sub plus which will add 10db. It also has seperate eq for each channel (all 7) and the typical crossover settings for the sub 50,80,100, etc.. Also its THX certified

I'll add on to that that all the Pioneers with Advanced MCACC have a 5 or 7 band eq for each channel dependent on the model. My previous and current receivers(Pioneer VSX-9300TX and the Elite VSX-56TXi) both have the 7 band eq, but they also include bass and treble that can be defeated with either the tone option or using 2 channel stereo direct mode and of course loudness and midnight modes are present as well