Home theater rear & side surround placement advice

[devilmanterry]

I'm looking for advice for placement of my rear and side surrounds. There is existing wiring in place, and some limitations on where I can place these. The picture I've attached is facing the rear of the room. The most likely WAF-approved placement is going to be in-ceiling for both rear and side surrounds. We did look at in-wall, but for the rears we were told they would be too close to our heads and for the side surrounds, in-wall isn't ideal due to a wide walk-way and staircase on one side of the main viewing area (left side in the pic). In the picture the two red squares indicate existing wiring (believe the previous owner used this for the rear surround - there were bulky speakers mounted to the ceiling when we toured). The two options I'm considering most seriously are:
Opt 1: installing the rear surrounds in-ceiling, closer in than the proposed side surrounds and up against the soffit (blue), or
Opt 2: installing the rear surrounds in the soffit ceiling, over the bar area behind the couch (in green).

In both scenarios I would envision using the existing wiring shown in red for the side surrounds, it is slightly forward from the soffit and on the edges of the couch. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Rear surrounds work best being some distance behind the seating, so Option 2 looks like your best bet. That said, not sure how effective it’s going to be since both the sides and rears are coming from the same direction – overhead. I think I’d just go with 5.1 and be done with it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yep, I would agree, you are not really set up for 7 speaker system.

Unless you want to place the rear speaker over that window and door.

 

[devilmanterry]

Yep, I would agree, you are not really set up for 7 speaker system.

Unless you want to place the rear speaker over that window and door.

Placing them over that window and door would actually be a possibility - they'd be pretty far back and there's still the issue of the pillar blocking some of the sound - but assume you're joking because of the distance.

My initial plan was actually to go 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 - I only started considering the side surrounds at the recommendation of a guy we talked to when we purchased our front 3 speakers (who recommended avoiding the height speakers and just going with side surrounds). I'm not necessarily opposed to only doing rear surrounds, but here's the caveat: if I did that, then either the rear surrounds or atmos speakers would have to go where the 'existing' wiring is. I couldn't pass the WAF by installing rear speakers in the soffit and leaving the ugly faceplates in place. So if atmos speakers were installed there we'd be okay - otherwise the rear surrounds would need to go there. Does that change the opinions at all?

 

[2channel lover]

I'm looking for advice for placement of my rear and side surrounds. There is existing wiring in place, and some limitations on where I can place these. The picture I've attached is facing the rear of the room. The most likely WAF-approved placement is going to be in-ceiling for both rear and side surrounds. We did look at in-wall, but for the rears we were told they would be too close to our heads and for the side surrounds, in-wall isn't ideal due to a wide walk-way and staircase on one side of the main viewing area (left side in the pic). In the picture the two red squares indicate existing wiring (believe the previous owner used this for the rear surround - there were bulky speakers mounted to the ceiling when we toured). The two options I'm considering most seriously are:
Opt 1: installing the rear surrounds in-ceiling, closer in than the proposed side surrounds and up against the soffit (blue), or
Opt 2: installing the rear surrounds in the soffit ceiling, over the bar area behind the couch (in green).

In both scenarios I would envision using the existing wiring shown in red for the side surrounds, it is slightly forward from the soffit and on the edges of the couch. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Welcome to AH.

Unless you have considerably more room behind the seating area than the pic shows, I would drop the rear surround idea and go 5.1

In ceiling are not well suited for surrounds, but if you really want surrounds and that's the most WAF friendly option...go for it.

But...it appears that you can do a nice ceiling mounted speaker for the side surrounds and get a much better result where your red marked locations are.

Rear surrounds look to be a waste imo.

 

[2channel lover]

Placing them over that window and door would actually be a possibility - they'd be pretty far back and there's still the issue of the pillar blocking some of the sound - but assume you're joking because of the distance.

My initial plan was actually to go 5.2.2 or 5.2.4 - I only started considering the side surrounds at the recommendation of a guy we talked to when we purchased our front 3 speakers (who recommended avoiding the height speakers and just going with side surrounds). I'm not necessarily opposed to only doing rear surrounds, but here's the caveat: if I did that, then either the rear surrounds or atmos speakers would have to go where the 'existing' wiring is. I couldn't pass the WAF by installing rear speakers in the soffit and leaving the ugly faceplates in place. So if atmos speakers were installed there we'd be okay - otherwise the rear surrounds would need to go there. Does that change the opinions at all?

To your comment on surrounds...you should be.

I mentioned earlier that I don't think you have the room depth for 7 ch, but even if you did...most of the surround signals go the side surrounds which is why 5.1 is pretty competitive with 7.1 movie audio.

It seems like you were on a good path with the 5.2.4 concept...but having surrounds AND Atmos in ceiling is not optimal.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Placing them over that window and door would actually be a possibility - they'd be pretty far back and there's still the issue of the pillar blocking some of the sound - but assume you're joking because of the distance....

I wasn't joking. How far back is it? if you are sitting on that couch, that pillar would not be a big deal unless on the very left side of that couch, behind the pillar.
Make sure you and spouse have the sweet spot in the middle, then you get a good benefit.
That curtain rod may be an small issue, lower it below speaker there.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would do it differently we’re it my space, but everyone’s WAF is different.

Even if you did install in the rear surround location you would still connect them to the surround(side) terminals. I think your best bet here is to stay with 5.1, and also avoid any Atmos unless you can have a proper bed layer. All speakers in the ceiling will not be effective for Atmos.

 

[devilmanterry]

@2channel lover - I assume you mean room between the couch and that half wall/bar seating area? In that case the pic is about right, the couch is right up against that wall. If you mean total space, including the area behind that bar area, then there is a lot of space - there's another room with a pool table and the back wall is ~17' from the back of the couch. When you say ceiling mounted speaker, you mean not in-ceiling, but mount something on the ceiling or have it drop down with a hanger? Sorry if these are dumb questions. Regarding in-ceiling and atmos - what are thoughts on putting the height speakers towards the front of the room? Only asking at this point because I have things opened up and ladders/fish tape out so was debating running the speaker cables now and perhaps leave them in the ceiling for the future?

@mtrycrafts - that rear wall is 17' back from the rear of the couch. I actually had debated putting speakers in that area anyway as Zone 2 sound.

@William Lemmerhirt - you mean you'd put the rear surrounds further back than the existing locations and leave the faceplates (rather than putting side or atmos speakers there)? I'm open to suggestions - at least I can propose them to the wife and see.

I was told that the couch is too close to the rear wall to put in-wall surrounds - is that the consensus here?

Thoughts on putting bi-pole/di-pole speakers on the walls? Not sure if that would pass the WAF test, but throwing it out there. The wall to the left of the couch as you look at the pic is ~8'8" - so don't know if it would be an option to install a speaker in-wall there at the bottom of the staircase and then install a surround speaker to the right of the couch in the pic in-wall as well - wondering if that's too close to your head on that side?

 

[2channel lover]

@2channel lover - I assume you mean room between the couch and that half wall/bar seating area? In that case the pic is about right, the couch is right up against that wall. If you mean total space, including the area behind that bar area, then there is a lot of space - there's another room with a pool table and the back wall is ~17' from the back of the couch. When you say ceiling mounted speaker, you mean not in-ceiling, but mount something on the ceiling or have it drop down with a hanger? Sorry if these are dumb questions. Regarding in-ceiling and atmos - what are thoughts on putting the height speakers towards the front of the room? Only asking at this point because I have things opened up and ladders/fish tape out so was debating running the speaker cables now and perhaps leave them in the ceiling for the future?

I saw the room on the other side of the bar...obviously that gives you plenty of room for rear surrounds...it looks as if the column and bar might be a factor there so I wasn't too keen rears back there.

The additional pics help...but they mostly reinforced my initial thoughts...5.1, maybe on atmos.

Ceiling mounted...yes, exactly, not in ceiling.

I get the WAF...my cousin built a new home and his builder/low voltage contractor installed a complete inceiling 7.1...he was so excited...until I told him it was a big mistake, it's going to sound like crap...it sounds like crap with TV dialog coming from overhead...but if it's just surrounds...it's not ideal for the best surround sound, but it's not a huge big mistake imo.

Looking at the room again...I think I would leave Atmos alone...you're going to have to use the ceiling pre-wire spots for surrounds...atmos in ceiling closer to the TV wall...I don't see that working.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

@mtrycrafts - that rear wall is 17' back from the rear of the couch. I actually had debated putting speakers in that area anyway as Zone 2 sound.
...

No, that is too far back. The original picture kind of hid the distance, hard to judge.

 

[devilmanterry]

Okay thanks all for the advice. I assume no-go on bi/dipole on walls in that bar top area since no one mentioned it? I'll have to see if on-ceiling (vs. in-ceiling) passes the WAF. The previous owners had that and she was not a fan of the look. Any suggestions of specific speakers/mounts? We're getting Focal Chora 826 for the fronts and the CC - we've tested quite a few speakers and for us there really was no comparison between them and anything else in that price range, so I was leaning towards going with Focal for the surrounds since we both felt like there was a noticeable difference between that brand and others. Would that make the most sense for times when we are listening to music?

I realize I've mostly been focusing on HT applications, but we do listen to music quite a bit, so I shouldn't neglect that side of things.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’m gonna try and doodle my thoughts once I get a little time. FWIW my wife hates my speakers. I pay the mortgage too!!! Lol

I would try and go in/on/around the cubby/pillar area. Like where you have the yellow boxes. Doodling...

 

[2channel lover]

Okay thanks all for the advice. I assume no-go on bi/dipole on walls in that bar top area since no one mentioned it? I'll have to see if on-ceiling (vs. in-ceiling) passes the WAF. The previous owners had that and she was not a fan of the look. Any suggestions of specific speakers/mounts? We're getting Focal Chora 826 for the fronts and the CC - we've tested quite a few speakers and for us there really was no comparison between them and anything else in that price range, so I was leaning towards going with Focal for the surrounds since we both felt like there was a noticeable difference between that brand and others. Would that make the most sense for times when we are listening to music?

I realize I've mostly been focusing on HT applications, but we do listen to music quite a bit, so I shouldn't neglect that side of things.

Nice speakers...the room looks nice and you have the makings of a nice audio room...if the clean look on the ceiling is important to the wife...but this is not that bad of a look...

Focusing on the bracket here....you can find these type brackets/speakers in white.

Music...hires multi-ch music can send full range signals to the rears, so having them share drivers with the fronts is not a bad idea.

Movies...tonal matching with fronts is not as important...mostly sound effects.

 

[devilmanterry]

Okay thanks again for the advice