Home Theater hunting

[Jutsuka]

I have been reading up on the basics as well as the reviews and have decided that sound is more important to me than the picture. Which basically means a would spend more today on Audio and be willing to upgrade my video later. I liked what I saw with the Panasonic AE-900U HDTV projector - I would not going with something similar or a little higher in price if you have a recommendation.

I went to two demos, one which had the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver II 200w per channel driving some Martin Logan's. My experience was VERY similar to the reviews I have read; the mid-range was present and had a warm quality to it. I would have to revisit to hear how the bass came through. I went to another location and heard some B&W 803s speakers and they were pretty freaking nice. However, this was (guessing) a two channel setup that created awesome center channel presence while they played some female artist, and my experience with the first demo was with "the Return of the Sith". The second place recommended driving the B&W's with the Rotel RMB 1077 Digital seven ch amp. with the RSP-1068 7.1 Pre-amp/Processor. However, the B&W's I heard were being run by some Irish named components (McSomethings) and the room was extremely well designed acoustically, unlike the first place. They warned me that the B&W's would deliver the true quality of the recordings.

I figured on spending around 20-25k for the room, and it has become apparent to me (not having a very large library of high quality DVD, SACD, etc. A/V stuff) that I would like to buy some of the audio components on the side of high quality now and upgrade the other components when the market settles on some of the new formats and such. I have heard that the Receiver/amp driving the speakers can make a huge difference in what is produced and was concerned that while I liked the performance of the B&W's, the equipment driving them was different than what was recommended. My question is this; how much of the performance resides with the speakers and how much with the receiver/amp setup? If the speakers are that good, can what's pushing them REALLY make that much of a difference. If I am more concerned about audio in a home theater setup (for both HD movies and high quality music) and I am am willing to "upgrade" stuff later on, how would you recommend I approach the shopping and purchase decision for the audio piece?

 

[jcPanny]

Audio components

Jutsuka,
Sounds like you have the budget for a nice system. I think that the speakers and the room are the most important components in the sound system. In your budget you sould consider room treatments and maybe a Rives level 1 consulatation. Also check out the recent AH article on budget considerations for a giudeline.

I would recommend selecting the speakers first. They are one of the most important audio component and will not be outdated like electronics. Next, select an outboard amplifier capable of driving them. Finally many receivers in the $1k price range work well as a pre-pro, and can be replaced when new audio formats and features come out. The MPS-1 amp from AV123.com might be a good option and includes 7 monoblock channels for $1700.

For the front projector, check out the Optoma HD72 and Sanyo Z4 in addition to the Panny. Projectorcentral.com is another good site for projector reviews and info.

 

[Jutsuka]

Jutsuka,
I would recommend selecting the speakers first. They are one of the most important audio component and will not be outdated like electronics. Next, select an outboard amplifier capable of driving them. Finally many receivers in the $1k price range work well as a pre-pro, and can be replaced

jcPanny - I typed them in caps and thought it was annoying, but here it is anyway; THANK YOU. This provides some clarity and is exactly where I was trying to get to. I was afraid no one was going to be able to decipher my rookie madness, typos and all. Thank you for not blasting me on "Return" of the Sith or not knowing the McIntosh brand name, did I miss anything?

Anyway, I will get back to the articles you mentioned with the new knowledge/guidance. As well as checking out the references.

Quick qeustion; when you guys do the product evaluations, do you listen to them in acoustically enhanced rooms, and, do you use factory settings?

Jutsuka

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Jutsuka,
You'll definitely want to research acoustic treatments for your new theater. No theater should be without!! Taking care of the acoustics of any listening room is paramount to good sound.

 

[jcPanny]

Demo rooms

Jutsuka,
The most important factor is how the speakers in other gear sound in your HT room. You may find that some dealers have highly treated demo rooms and others have crappy ones. When shopping in your budget dealers should allow you to do an inhome demo and most online dealers have a 30 day trial period.

 

[Nick250]

My question is this; how much of the performance resides with the speakers and how much with the receiver/amp setup? If the speakers are that good, can what's pushing them REALLY make that much of a difference.

Bingo! You got it right from the get go. The sound quality in general is:

90% Speakers and room acoustics.

10% Everything else

As long as you have a quality amp with enough power to run the particular speakers you choose you are sell set there.

Big dividends are gotten by having your room acoustically treated as another poster mentioned.

My prescription:

Obsess about speakers

Obsess about room treatments

Do not obsess about amp/preamps, DVD players, speaker wire or other connections, expensive power cords, power conditioners etc etc.

Be prepared to have some store reps think you are ill informed about the matters above. Now that you started this thread and read the replies, you probably know more than most of them about electronics and how it impacts (actually does not impact for the most part) sound quality.

Bluejean cables who advertise here is a good place to get all the interconnects and cables you need.

If you run across a piece of hardware that really appeals to you like, say power conditioner, and you know that it will not impact sound, but that has hugh cool factor to you, and it's not crazy expensive, GET IT! This is a hobby and IMO having some neat stuff is fine, and you do not have to justify it other than you just happen to really like it.

IMHO, YMMY yadda yadda.

End of rant for now. Good luck!

Nick

 

[mulester7]

electronics and how it impacts (actually does not impact for the most part) sound quality.

.....this is wrong, Nick....speakers and room conditioning may determine "most" of what one hears as to sound quality, but it all goes hand-in-hand from source to speakers with electonics playing more than a miniscule role....you've indicated you have little or no experience with seperates, and you upgraded a receiver with a receiver....so I can understand why you don't think there's any difference, but that's wrong....but, Nick, I know me and you go way back, so I'll be honest, I can only speak in favor of that Irish line of equipment, what's it's name?, McSomething?.....

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

High end monobloc poweramps can have a signature sound. If they didn't, there'd be little reason to drop several thousand dollars on one. There's no doubt speakers will be a primary goal in sound reproduction - as is room acoustics, but I wouldn't recommend just buying anything with a lot of power. A Mackie pro amp will put out the same amount of power as a Krell or McIntosh, but I guarantee you the sound will be different (unless Mtry gets his hands on level matching equipment/eq's, etc...). Some amps do better with some speakers. For instance, it's been said not to pair a Rotel amp with Klipsch or Def Tech speakers. My advice is to get a high end set of bookshelves, and take them to different high end shops to listen to these amps with your material on your bookshelves.

 

[mulester7]

I went to another location and heard some B&W 803s speakers and they were pretty freaking nice. However, this was (guessing) a two channel setup that created awesome center channel presence.

However, the B&W's I heard were being run by some Irish named components (McSomethings) and the room was extremely well designed acoustically, unlike the first place. They warned me that the B&W's would deliver the true quality of the recordings.

.....this what McIntosh does, Jutsuka....imaging....with an ambiance added presence that is the best I've heard....a Crown K2, even with VERY good sound quality, didn't even come close to McIntosh in the department of imaging....nor did an Earthquake Cinnenova 5 approach the sound quality and imaging of McIntosh in ANY department....that is my recommendation to you, that you consider McIntosh for your pushing equipment, you won't be sorry.....and there's a used market for McIntosh also....I use one of the oldest solid-state pre-amps Mc has sold, made in the 70's....and it's NEVER been shopped even for lights on the panel....I am soon to have 17 channels running off the C-26 pre-amp, and can always get a 5 channel decoder if I wish, but I doubt I will....my screen is two dimensional, why would I want race cars going behind me?....left to right, and right to left, is most adequately fine....keep all this in mind as you continue your search, Jutsuka, and best wishes on your outcome.....

 

[mulester7]

.....that Irish line of equipment, what's it's name?, McSomething?.....

.....McTavish?....McFartBlossom?.....

 

[JaceTheAce]

Why don't you consider a CRT projector? A $10,000 digital projector still cannot match the picture quality of a $1000 used CRT projector.

www.curtpalme.com

 

[Nick250]

.....this is wrong, Nick....speakers and room conditioning may determine "most" of what one hears as to sound quality, but it all goes hand-in-hand from source to speakers with electonics playing more than a miniscule role....you've indicated you have little or no experience with seperates, and you upgraded a receiver with a receiver....so I can understand why you don't think there's any difference, but that's wrong....but, Nick, I know me and you go way back, so I'll be honest, I can only speak in favor of that Irish line of equipment, what's it's name?, McSomething?.....

Mule I have no interest in getting into this with you. I know where you stand and you know where I stand. End of story. Let it go for crying out loud. And may I suggest if you want to express how much you disagree with my views, start your another thread, don't hijack this one for that purpose.

As long as you have a quality amp with enough power to run the particular speakers you choose you are sell set there

If you think you have a better recommendation for the OP, tell him, not me. He can read the posts and pick out the parts that he finds helpful and make sense to him.

Nick

 

[fredejo]

old crt's are better than the newer digital projectors?? yamaha 900, etc... is it just for 480i/p?? or looks better than the 720ps??

 

[mtrycrafts]

Why don't you consider a CRT projector? A $10,000 digital projector still cannot match the picture quality of a $1000 used CRT projector.

www.curtpalme.com

Unfortunately those CRTs are very heavy, and the light output is abysmal at best.

 

[mulester7]

As long as you have a quality amp with enough power to run the particular speakers you choose you are sell set there

.....this is not what I disagreed with, Nick, this next one is....

electronics and how it impacts (actually does not impact for the most part) sound quality.

.....I wanted the original poster to know you had no basis of experience for saying this....we should want the people who ask questions to get the best information possible, should we not?....anytime someone says or implies there's no difference in sound quality between receivers and seperates and has no basis for saying or implying it, it bothers me just as bad as anything I said that bothered you....gone for a motorcycle ride.....

 

[Jutsuka]

Let me just say; thank you to everyone who posted. I am glad I was away for a week and a half (moving into the new house), and, I am especially glad I did not buy anything yet. However, being away from the posts for awhile had me slipping back into "freaking out" about what to spend my money on first. Before I read all of your responses, I decided that acoustics is what I want most; possibly removable since a bedroom woudl increase the value of my home during resale; if and when that should happen. We'll see.

Anyway, after reading your posts I am back to feeling confident about my approach; acoustics and speakers first. I was wondering about the Sunfire demo which produced some really "pleasant" mid level sounds during the "...Sith" opener (soft/remote explosions when debris colldided battleship in the background) and it made me wonder about the component piece and what they "send out" to the speakers. For instance, I heard another demo over the last week and a half and a Denon delivered everything over some Polk Audio's. Problem with every Denon demo I have heard is that the high end is always delivered at ear splitting levels. This is not meant to bash Denon, I just don't think I would be able to last through a movie without getting tired of listening. They just sound to "glaring" for me. Maybe these components can be managed to more pleasing levels but I have yet to hear it.

So, my first step will be to get the room designed and then I will choose speakers. As for the speakers, I am going to decide on standing vs wall and on vs in wall. My guess is that I will end up with a mixed bag of speaker options which may or may not be driven by the component(s). I think I will pick a handful of speakers and then determine how well they sound with specific components. I don't mind if this drives my HT ambitions down so long as my listening experience is one that keeps you in the room and coming back for more music and movies.

Jutsuka

 

[mtrycrafts]

So, my first step will be to get the room designed and then I will choose speakers. As for the speakers, I am going to decide on standing vs wall and on vs in wall. My guess is that I will end up with a mixed bag of speaker options which may or may not be driven by the component(s). I think I will pick a handful of speakers and then determine how well they sound with specific components. I don't mind if this drives my HT ambitions down so long as my listening experience is one that keeps you in the room and coming back for more music and movies.

Jutsuka

Yes, speakers should be your first component you are after. Wherever you audition them make careful mental or written notes how that room is set up, any wall acoustic treatments used, etc. Ask about speaker impedance and sensitivity as that will be important when you are looking for receiver to drive it with.
Remember, if you audition another set of speakers at another room, that will have a bearing as well as your memory of what really they sounded like, not to mention human bias deciding that perhaps one set looked much better, hence a better sound, or a popular brand, anything.

You may have to involve your spouse?

 

[sholling]

I'm going with nick250. Electronics are electronics and the difference between bands and models for 2 channel MUISC is going to be sub 10%. A sweet 10%, but still less than 10%. That's hard to accept for people that drop 20k on electronics but it's reality. The key for 2 channel music since the 70s is and has remained the speakers. I haven't played with treatments but I'll buy into that.