Home Theater help needed (advice)

[mhuntoon]

My parents have asked me to put together a home theater system for their new house. They've already picked out the TV they want, but I'd like some advice as I'm not much of an expert on these things (knowing more than them about this isn't saying much )

Here's what Dad and I have got so far:

Samsung DLP 50" TV - model HLN5065W
Sony Progressive Scan DVD/VCR - model SLV-D350P
Klipsch Synergy Series Subwoofer - KSW-10
Klipsch Synergy Series Bookshelf speakers - SB-3
Klipsch Synergy Series center-channel - SC-3
HomeTech 6.5" 2-way in-ceiling speakers - HT603R
Yamaha 7.1-channel a/v receiver - HTR-5790

I'm sure there are better products out there on the market, but my parents are in their early to mid-60s so they don't need the biggest and best. Dad would like to avoid the floor tower speakers in the front (space constraints) and he wants ceiling mounted speakers for the rear. Those are his two big requests while putting this together.

Totalling this up at Best Buy, I came up with roughly $5800. I have no problem shopping around to shave some money on each component, but I thought I'd send this out to some experts who might have suggestions for what they should get.

The Yamaha receiver appealed to me because it's state-of-the-art and also because it allows two audio outputs. They'll be putting speakers in the backyard by the pool and in the front courtyard. This receiver will allow Dad and I to watch something in surround-sound in the den while the women are out back by the pool listening to something else. I know Onkyo also makes a receiver with "Zone2" technology, but I don't know if anyone else does. The Onkyo receiver I saw at Circuit City was more expensive than the Yamaha listed above.

In short, if anyone has any suggestions such as "absolutely do not get that" or "that component is great, good job", I'd really like to hear them.

They know they are looking to spend between five and six thousand on the total package. Obviously, less will be better if it doesn't affect sound quality. They entertain a lot, so even though they may not pick up on some of the nuances, they're afraid their friends will. They aren't pretentious at all (although that last sentence sounds bad), they just don't want to spend that much money only to find out they could've spent just a few dollars more (relatively) and gotten something MUCH better.

Thanks!

 

[docferdie]

Just a tip regarding the TV if you plan on putting the center channel on top then I suggest you look at the 467 or the 567 and stay away from the 5065 or 507. The 50 inch models have no top shelf for a center speaker. If your center speaker will go below the TV then it doesn't matter. There is nothing overtly wrong with your choices and honestly most 60 year olds have presbyacusis so their frequency response is somewhere around 30 - 15000 HZ or narrower so expensive audio gear really doesn't make sense.

 

[mhuntoon]

docferdie - thanks for the advice. I agree about the high end equipment, but like I said they entertain a lot. Most of the people they entertain with are business associates who range in age from their mid-30s to my parents age. Plus, this house is more than they need and more than they've ever had before. I think they are just trying to make up for going without for so long. I've told them that less expensive kits would be just as good for their needs, but they told me to pick out what I would be buying myself and not to worry about it. They don't want to blow a ton of money, but they are comfortable with the price range I mentioned above. As for the center channel, they are having a custom entertainment center built into the wall. There will be a shelf for the receiver, center channel, DVD/VCR, and DirecTV box directly above the TV. Will this correct the problem you cautioned about or am I missing the picture here?

 

[docferdie]

Yep as long as you have a dedicated center channel shelf then I would go with the 50 in DLP. I would also go with the newer 507s as opposed to the 5065s at best buy as it has a better deinterlacer for standard TV. Some of the newer 507s also allow for 480i to 1080i on all inputs as opposed to having a dedicated 480 i/p and separate 720p/1080--this matters if you have an xbox. As far as entertaining company goes, nothing beats the shock and awe of a manly subwoofer. From my memory of the ksw 10 it is fairly weak especially when paired with the sB-3 and sc-3. I would suggest either a ksw12, or a velodyne cht 12 or cht 15. I used to have a cht8 and it had more kick than the ksw10.
By the way, the samsung DLP really shines when fed through the DVI input so that may be a consideration when choosing a DVD player. Best buy is clearing out the old 931s in anticipation of the newer 941 so you should be able to get a good price on that--you could actually try to buy the 941s as well.
Are you doing a full 7.1? because the yamaha 5790 seems overkill if you'll only do 5.1. The money you save on the receiver end can then be channeled into the subwoofer budget. A lot of people might disagree but I have come to realize that the single thing that i appreciate most when I go to the movie house is the oomph of the bass. I have only recently been able to get that with the MK350.
Finally you can actually sit down in front of the computer and get a pretty good shopping list by going to both best buy.com and circuit city.com. Happy shopping.

 

[mhuntoon]

docferdie - they will only be using the 5.1 setup I mentioned above. As such, I guess we could spend less by not getting a 7.1 receiver. I don't remember there being much of a price difference, but I'm kind of braindead right now so I'll have to go back and check. I know that Dad wants to have just one receiver and he was very interested in the Zone2 technology where he could listen to a movie in surround sound and Mom could be listening to a radio station or CD in the backyard or courtyard with the outdoor speakers also being connected to the same receiver he's using. I don't understand much about the 5.1 vs. 7.1 setup (are people adding two additional speakers to their home theaters or is this where the Zone2 technology comes in?). As you can see, I'm a bit of a newbie to this stuff.

***edit: I went to the bestbuy.com site, but can't find a DVD player with 931 in the model number. Any chance I could get you to point me in the right direction?

 

[av_phile]

I'm sure there are better products out there on the market, but my parents are in their early to mid-60s so they don't need the biggest and best. Dad would like to avoid the floor tower speakers in the front (space constraints) and he wants ceiling mounted speakers for the rear. Those are his two big requests while putting this together.

Just my thoughts. Bookshelf speakers perform best on non-resonating stands. That is why most speakers stands are tweaked and filled with inert sonically neutral materials like construction sand (not beach sand). But if space is a constraint, just note that bookshelf on stands occupy the same real estate floor space as tower speakers. Some bookshelf speakers + stands cost about the same as tower speakers in the same brand model series.

The Yamaha receiver appealed to me because it's state-of-the-art and also because it allows two audio outputs. They'll be putting speakers in the backyard by the pool and in the front courtyard. This receiver will allow Dad and I to watch something in surround-sound in the den while the women are out back by the pool listening to something else. I know Onkyo also makes a receiver with "Zone2" technology, but I don't know if anyone else does. The Onkyo receiver I saw at Circuit City was more expensive than the Yamaha listed above.

In short, if anyone has any suggestions such as "absolutely do not get that" or "that component is great, good job", I'd really like to hear them.

I much prefer the Onkyo. It's more musical, though the Yamaha is preferred for HT. But if you can get a NAD, Denon, Rotel or Harman Kardon, better. I always go by the rule: "What is good for music is good for HT, but not the reverse." Since you plan to use zone2 for music while playing HT, it would be a good idea to invest on a musical receiver that is good in both. But that's just me.

 

[mhuntoon]

av_phile - thanks for the input. Do you have any specific model numbers you'd suggest? I'll happily look into them.

As for the bookshelf speakers, we went through his house today (still under construction) and looked at the framing for the entertainment center. Now, he's considering wall mounted in the front. I'm pretty sure the bookshelf speakers I was looking at can be mounted, but I'll have to verify this. Does this help with what you were talking about because I honestly don't understand too much about the non-resonating stands.

Thanks!

 

[nm2285]

When you were at Best Buy, did you test the Klipsch against Athenas? Just wondering why you picked Klipsch, because I think you could save a few dollars on the speakers without sacrificing any quality by choosing a different brand. However, the Klipsch do have a different sound with the horn loaded tweeter (its not one I prefer ESPECIALLY for music).

 

[mhuntoon]

nm2285 - yes, I did listen to the Athenas but they weren't setup right next to the Klipsch (different section of the store we visited about 20 minutes after hearing the Klipschs). The salesperson even mentioned that the Athenas were an excellent brand as well. He recommended the Klipschs for the in-ceiling speakers because of their moveable tweeter, but I couldn't find them when pricing them online later that day. The Athenas we listened to were more outdoor speakers, if I remember correctly.

Out of curiosity, why do you not like the Klipsch speakers for music?

 

[av_phile]

av_phile - thanks for the input. Do you have any specific model numbers you'd suggest? I'll happily look into them.

As for the bookshelf speakers, we went through his house today (still under construction) and looked at the framing for the entertainment center. Now, he's considering wall mounted in the front. I'm pretty sure the bookshelf speakers I was looking at can be mounted, but I'll have to verify this. Does this help with what you were talking about because I honestly don't understand too much about the non-resonating stands.

Thanks!

Try these at less than $1,000.00 with zone2

Onkyo TX-NR801 (kinda expensive at circuit city, try online at Vanns and Best Price.) Or the 900 and 901

http://www.onkyo.net/uk/index.php

Harman Kardon AVR430 or 630 (don't be misled by their lower power ratings as this receiver is a conservatively rated high current amp)
Harman Kardon AVR72 (this is to die for but its srp is about 2k)

http://www.harmankardon.com/default_FLASH.asp

NAD T753 (Another conservatively rated receiver)

http://www.nadelectronics.com/

I am sure if you google search the brand, you can get to their website to get a more thorough listing of receivers within your price range. Rotel may be a bit higher.

Just FYI, speakers, especially the mains, shouold be rigidly mounted on a stable surface. (That is why the best known speakers can't be lifted/moved by just one bodybuilder.) Stands give bookshelf speakers some sonic purity that is unaffected by diffractions and resonsances that would arise if placed in a shelf or desk. But the stands must exhibit no resonance of its own and be rigid. Putting sand inside the metal tubes of these stands eliminate metal ringing that would otherwise happen without, and give them mass. (There's also mass-loading of floorstanding speakers in some brands, the better to given them rigidity and, thus, impart tighter bass response.)

I know there are certain speaker types/brands that are recommended for wall or ceiling mounting to bring out their best. I am not sure if the Klipsch bookshelf speakers you have in mind are one of them. I think not. There's a wharfedale pro model that I think are meant to be wall mounted, just can't recall the model. Mounting of speakers can spell the difference between agreeable and lousy sound. You may want to do further research on this on the net. Offhand, I can say that most commercial bookshelf speakers sound best on stands. Except perhaps those Bose lifestyle cubes which are recommended for wall mounting. But I'd have none of those.

 

[docferdie]

I was talking about the samsung HD-931 but I guess it's been dropped from the online store as it is being phased out in favor of the upcoming HD-941. The HD-931 though is still available at local best buys.
nm2285 brings up a good point, the Athenas are indeed outstanding speakers. The ASB-2 is nearly half the price of the SB-3. Some people actually like the horn loaded sound of Klipsch. Fact is theaters like AMC use Klipsch speakers so if you like AMC's sound then you're probably better off with the Klipsch. I used to have the SB-1s and they were okay.

7.1 refers to left and right side surrounds and 2 speakers for the rear surround channel. A theater actually has something like 6 or more side surrounds and 6 or more rear surrounds. Movies however just have 6 discrete channels at present which are front left, center, front right, left surround, rear surround and right surround. Movie theaters would therefore have something like a 21.1 configuration if we apply the receiver naming standard even though there are only 6 discrete channels. Most home users probably do a 5.1 or 6.1 configuration.

 

[mhuntoon]

av_phile and docferdie - Wow! Thank you both for the info. I will spend some time going over all of this information tomorrow. It's a lot to digest. Even though this isn't for my own use, it's definitely an educational experience.

Right now, I'm looking at a multi-disc DVD changer for myself and I'm going to start another thread for that (rather than get off topic here). Then, I'm going to bed.

Thanks again!

 

[Unregistered]

5065 v 507 Question

I didn't realize the BestBuy 50" Samsung DLP was a different model number. I just bought a 5065 but am not taking delivery until July because of a move.

Please elaborate on the differences between the 5065 & 507. I wouldn't hesitate to pay a few $ more for the superior technology.

Sort of a penny-wise, pound-foolish thing.

 

[docferdie]

HLN5065 and HLN507 have two main differences. The first is that the 507 has a faroudja deinterlacer while the 5065 has a samsung deinterlacer. The second is that the the 507 has a more handsome black trim around the screen.

There is actually a new iteration of the 507 which I think is the 507W1 which basically lets you plug in any signal from 480i through 1080i in each of the three component inputs as opposed to the 5065/507 which has a separate 480i/p input and two 720p/1080i inputs. This is only significant for xbox owners as the xbox dashboard is in 480i while games range from 480 p to 1080i.

I believe Best buy only has the 5065 while the 507 is available at CC, Tweeter, ABT. I don't know which dealers have actually started shipping the 507W1 but these have been available since February of this year. I would get the W1 model if given a choice.

 

[Unregistered]

You sure about the deinterlacers?

I've since found several websites claiming that both have the Faroujda and the only difference is the charcoal trim v. silver trim.

 

[nm2285]

nm2285 - yes, I did listen to the Athenas but they weren't setup right next to the Klipsch (different section of the store we visited about 20 minutes after hearing the Klipschs). The salesperson even mentioned that the Athenas were an excellent brand as well. He recommended the Klipschs for the in-ceiling speakers because of their moveable tweeter, but I couldn't find them when pricing them online later that day. The Athenas we listened to were more outdoor speakers, if I remember correctly.

Out of curiosity, why do you not like the Klipsch speakers for music?

Klipsch's horn loaded tweeter design makes for a very dynamic speaker. The instruments are thrown at you: they are very forward/up front. This is not necessarily the way you would hear it in concert (at least at an acoustic venue). I prefer a speaker that is more flat and natural in its presentation (which the Athena is).

I asked some BB associates to hook up the Klipsch right next to the Athena (by removing one of the other speakers) and listened to them side by side (AS-B2 vs SB2). I preferred the Athena in every aspect; the Klipsch sounded a bit bloated and as I stated above. I owned a pair of SF2s for years and now own a pair of NHT SB2s (fantastic speaker! highly recommend finding these and listening if you can) and other than bass extension (NHT is bookshelf, Klipsch is floorstanding), I prefer the NHTs. NHTs are $400, Klipschs are $650.

You may like the sound you get from them, that is personal taste. Regardless, I think there are slightly better price to performance ratios anyway.

Best suggestion would be to get out of Best Buy and audition in a store with other speakers and a better listening environment. Find something you love!

 

[aca6a]

your center channel

Just thought you might like to know, Klipsch center chennels are designed so that they can be inverted when placed under a tv. The tops are sloped so that the center channel can be angled up, giving you better coverage. you can switch the cover on the speaker so that it doesn't say klipsch upside-down too. Hope that was helpful.

 

[aca6a]

samsung 65 versus 7 series

A note about the 7 series samsung. It also allows for analog upconversion through s-video inputs, essentailly allowing non-progressive dvd players to simulate progressive scan, but with porgreesive scan dvd players being so cheap, it not reaaly a great feature in my opinion.

 

[Tizeye]

Yamaha HTR5790 vs RS-V1400

Don't know where my first post went as not on the thread as I went through the forumn registration process.

Have you considered the "equivalent" RS-V1400? Those two models are not quite as identical as the Yamaha Q&A site would have you believe. I goes beyond same components/assembly line/price points but different markets - specialty retail vs mass market explanation. I am currently awaiting the UPS truck for my RS-V650. While I might have preferrred Denon, neither they nor Onkyo could handle 4 ohm speakers (I downloaded all three manuals).

I compared the RS-V650/HTR5760 online as I was curious what were the differences and opted for the RS-V model. I just checked the RS-V1400/HTR5790 and the same holds true. While I ignored the cosmetic differences on the front panel, the back panel was very interesting. On the RS-V line they had out terminals for Zone 2 (and Zone 3 on the 1400) that were TOTALLY MISSING on the HTR line! While I didn't download the manuals to see how/if the zones were handled on the HTR line, I simply opted to order the RS-V line.

While the RS-V line is eay to find on the Yamaha site at their "Products" menu, The HTR line is under the "Home Theater in a Box" then "components" submenu.

Just thought you may want to know.

May be worth a trip to a specialty retailer (should be a dealer search on the Yamaha site) for the RS-V line since the price is the same, and may be able to negotiate a lower price. While you are there, look at their entry level speakers as you should definately be able to negotiate 10-20% on a full package - receiver alone would be more difficult to negotiate, but the same price as Best Buy anyway. The Athena's are nice sounding speakers, but the NHT mentioned in another post, and Paradigm (Atom and Titan) would be at specialty stores and very competitive on an MSPR basis. Perhaps you could use Best Buy's current ad on Athena's as a negotiating tool. Also, the other poster was quite correct about the Klispch being 'bright' while the Athena's are more neutral. Klispch's trademark is their horn tweeter that projects out and is more in your face than the traditional dome tweeter. That can become tiring during extended listening. Great for a rock concert (and you see those big black ones with huge horns on stage at live concerts) but is that the type that your parents would appreciate?

 

[jjadams]

Home Theater Suggestions

On the DLP does it have a internal line doubler, if not you might want to add that to your list.