Home Teater review of SUBS

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>Just looked at Home Theater Mag's big Subwoofer round up.

My issues,

1) I do not use one foot of moist dirt and grass as a floor covering
2) All the driver cones in this test should have had the same orientation to the microphone.

I like to see what would happen if the response from all of these subs was done with 12 mics in a full 360 degree array on a solid surface like a parking lot.

The Adire unit is at a real disadvantage in these tests (still comes through quite well), the Totem and Earthquake are also but to a lesser extent.

I agree with the writer that &quot;room gain&quot; has no place in speaker measurements, but neither does this pathetic test or someone's back yard.

Oh look heavy advertiser X's is in the lead.</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>Also notice that none of the products reviewed in that issue or issues in the last year or so that received scores lower than 90s, and there were no negative critiques. &nbsp;It's also amusing to see rave reviews of a product followed by an ad for that product two pages after &nbsp;

The pictures sure are pretty though &nbsp;

</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000080'>The review should have been billed as a fun excercise. What it actually trying to accomplish anything specific in terms of rating/comparing the subwoofers?

Was he in an urban environment? Was the measurement done at night or during the day - there's about 10-20dB difference in ambient SPL levels depending upon where you are?

I'll have to read the article if it ever comes online.</font>

 

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>Don't forget temperature changes too.

I looked it (the mag) over at Safeway while the wife picked over the veggies (I suck at picking produce).

Waste of paper. &nbsp;Really, the only mag I &quot;buy&quot; is the Linux Journal. &nbsp;Thought about HT Builder till I saw the &quot;Cable Issue&quot;.</font>

 

[3db]

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_audiouser_ : <font color='#000000'>Just looked at Home Theater Mag's big Subwoofer round up.

My issues,

1) I do not use one foot of moist dirt and grass as a floor covering
2) All the driver cones in this test should have had the same orientation to the microphone.

I like to see what would happen if the response from all of these subs was done with 12 mics in a full 360 degree array on a solid surface like a parking lot.

The Adire unit is at a real disadvantage in these tests (still comes through quite well), the Totem and Earthquake are also but to a lesser extent.

I agree with the writer that &quot;room gain&quot; has no place in speaker measurements, but neither does this pathetic test or someone's back yard.

Oh look heavy advertiser X's is in the lead.</font>

<font color='#000000'>What's wrong with testing subs using an outdoor environment? &nbsp;You agree with the HT mag in elminating room gain but yet you complain about going to the outdoors. &nbsp;I'm totally confused by your contradiction in terms.

I read this as more of an experiment to really see how subs perform. &nbsp;I think it was a good idea because you eliminate all possible boundary affects which good aid or distract from the perfromance measurements.

As far as advertisement goes, I see adds for Axiom speakers on this site and they garnered a favorable review on this web page. Am I supposed to read that the reviews done by the staff on this site has nothing to do with add dollars??</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>You wonder why they just don't rent an anechoic chamber for a day. I bet the boffins there would be interested in the results.</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>3dB;

You will get no argument for me that testing speakers outside away from boundaries is a sound approach.  However, it might get a little messy and annoying to neighbors.

As for our reviews on Axiom products, we reviewed their products before accepting their banner ads.  If we didn't feel they genuinely made good products, we would not have accepted their banner ads.  Alternatively if you and others are willing to pay expenses associated with running and maintaining  this website, and all of the time and energy we put forth for such, we would be happy to take down all banner ads and continue.  However, I don't see this happening anytime soon. &nbsp;

If you only knew how little we benefit monetarily from this website, you would probably wonder why we even bother to put forth so much effort. &nbsp;

[edited: spelling]</font>

 

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>3db,

Did he eliminate his house, at best 30 feet away?
Did he eliminate temp variances or did he get them all tested in less than two hours?
Do you see any off axis response?

Temperature is a large factor, three to four degrees will have an impact on measurements. &nbsp;The position on the mic in this test could be considered near field at the frequencies he is measuring.

What your really seeing is how some subs perform on axis and others perform off axis and at different temperatures (I don't see a thermometer), and comparing them as the same. &nbsp;Then in the case of the Adire, the grass will impede or choke the woofer and the earth will absorb a significant amount of energy over and above your standard floor covering (it's down firing). &nbsp;ANY down firing or (to a lesser extent bi-polar) sub &nbsp;will take a beating in this test. &nbsp;I think it's a noble idea, but..... &nbsp;If you look at volume displacment stats for these subs (as verified by dumax) you'll see this test is flawed.

I like where PaulF is going, a anechoic chamber and maybe some people who know how to how to use it.</font>

 

[3db]

<font color='#000000'>Hawke/Gene

Please don't take by remark of your advertising of Axiom as having a bias on there reviews. I was merely using it to demonstrate a point. I read your reviews as being unbiased and true to point.


Audiouser, &nbsp;The effects of temperature on bass is much less than you think especially in a 10 degree margin. &nbsp;As far as ground absorption goes from down firing subs, I think the measurement speak for themselves. &nbsp;Off axis response for a sub is irrelevant as bass is omni directional.

I just want to add one point &nbsp;that I don't take the reviewers view as gospel as I have my own pair of ears &nbsp;that I listen thru .</font>

 

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>3db,

I can't agree more with using your ears when buying a system.

This test is flawed and is not &quot;an experiment to really see how subs perform&quot;, or in THM speak the &quot;ultimate subwoofer test&quot;. &nbsp;It's a guy playing with sub woofers in his back yard, and I wouldn't give the measurements too much credit, but many will.</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>Speakers and subs are matter of personal taste and no measurments can tell you the truth except your ears. Subs are a issue which needs more careful consideration, just because one can go down to 15Hz doesnt neccesarily mean it would appeal to your taste.</font>

 

[Rob Babcock]

<font color='#000000'>I believe the 2 part article states that the tests were done a couple hundred feet away from any buildings (must've needed some huge extension cords!) to eliminate any reflections.

Aside from the possible disadvantage to the bottom firing subs (not sure just how much bass the ground would absorb), I think the test was pretty well done.

It is a pet peave of mine, too, when a company uses adds the room gain of wherever they measure it to arrive at their freq curves. &nbsp;While a sub will be used in a room, I agree that room gain is a characteristic of rooms, not subs. &nbsp;They can't possibly guess what the gain might be in my room, even if I attempt to follow their setup instructions to the letter.

The main thing that disappoints me is that they didn't include any SVS subs in the test. &nbsp;Granted, you can't test everything in one article, but the SVS subs have garnered a lot of buzz, and they make some pretty tall performance claims. &nbsp;It'd be good to see someone do a test in a quasi-anechoic (or better) environment to put those claims to the test.</font>

 

[Guest]

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Rob Babcock : <font color='#000000'>The main thing that disappoints me is that they didn't include any SVS subs in the test.  Granted, you can't test everything in one article, but the SVS subs have garnered a lot of buzz, and they make some pretty tall performance claims.  It'd be good to see someone do a test in a quasi-anechoic (or better) environment to put those claims to the test.</font>

<font color='#000000'>SVS B4+ Review (Secrets of Hi Fi)

The measurements taken in the linked review were conducted outdoors.</font>