HiFi vs Pro / High Current vs High Wattage

[Keith raufer]

Hey guys first post for me.

Have been researching amps for a while now and I need someone to help out in laymen terms the difference between your traditional HiFi amp vs a Pro amp. Besides from fan noise... I've been in and out of HiFi stores and they said I would be crazy to use a Pro amp for my speakers as they are not "high current" and my speakers need a huge amount of current to drive to their full potential. There must be a difference between the 2. I mean the the amps I'm looking at listed below one weighs 14lbs and the other 85lbs

My current setup is SVS ultra towers, centre, bookshelfs & sb13 ultra sub. And the amps I'm looking at are a Crown xls2002 375 watts @8ohm vs Rotel RB1090. 380 watts &8ohm.

Thanks for you help.

 

[lovinthehd]

Nonsense. Look up Ohm's law. The Crown amps are fine. I use them myself. Hifi salesmen are often worthless.

 

[fuzz092888]

The biggest difference between pro amps and more home theater gear (aside from fan noise) is going to be 2 things (usually). First is that pro amps tend to have a higher noise floor, that is, with nothing playing they are more susceptible to line noise, hum and buzz. Now that does not guarantee that it will happen, but it can be something to consider. The other is the interconnects. Most Pro amps require either XLR or 1/4" for the inputs and the outputs don't always use binding posts. They can have neutrik interconnects.

Now I've had a previous generation Crown XLS amp and had zero problems with hum and buzz and fan noise. In this case I would say you're probably fine with the Crown.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I've had a Rotel as well and that was a really great amp. No complaints about the Rotel. A really well made, robust amp.

 

[lovinthehd]

As to weight, you're comparing amps of different design, not comparable. Another advantage to the Crown is that it gives back more information (about level/clipping). Cost wise it of course is an easy win.

 

[PENG]

Nonsense. Look up Ohm's law. The Crown amps are fine. I use them myself. Hifi salesmen are often worthless.

Haha, that won't help him as he wants it in layman term, besides, Ohm's law has almost nothing to do with what he's asking about. Try something else that he can understand.

 

[PENG]

I would be crazy to use a Pro amp for my speakers as they are not "high current" and my speakers need a huge amount of current to drive to their full potential.

No idea why he told you that, but the fact is, the XLS2002 is rated (525WPC into 2 ohms) to deliver more than enough current to the SVS Ultra towers.

There must be a difference between the 2. I mean the the amps I'm looking at listed below one weighs 14lbs and the other 85lbs

The two amps are of totally different design, the Crown is a class D amplifier that can have very high efficiency, likely >90%. That means it can have a much smaller power supply transformer and less heat sinks as almost all the power it takes from your wall outlet can be used to drive your speakers instead of having to dissipate a large part of it in the form of heat, hence the need for huge heat sinks in the RB1090 that is likely of the class A/B design.

In addition to higher efficiency, the Crown also has a fair size fan that will turn on as required, depending on the load. That further reduces the heat sink requirements, i.e. further reduce weight.

So to summarize, the Rotel is much heavier mainly because as a class A/B amp, it needs a much larger power supply transformer, heat sinks and enclosure than the class D Crown, for similar rated output.

My current setup is SVS ultra towers, centre, bookshelfs & sb13 ultra sub. And the amps I'm looking at are a Crown xls2002 375 watts @8ohm vs Rotel RB1090. 380 watts &8ohm.

Either amp will have more than enough power for your SVS towers, probably enough to fry them if you want to.

 

[massacre]

the thing to look at also is the difference in input line voltage.

 

[lovinthehd]

Haha, that won't help him as he wants it in layman term, besides, Ohm's law has almost nothing to do with what he's asking about. Try something else that he can understand.

Current and power are part of the same relationship, throw in a little Watt's Law as well. What the salesman was alluding to was some sort of superior use of the power into low impedance loads (what is usually called a high-current amp). Since the Crown is rated into two ohms, whereas the Rotel is not, the Crown is actually the "higher current" amp. http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

As to higher noise floor, only complaint I've heard about the Crown XLS series amp is with very high sensitivity speakers (like 110dB) where some hiss was evident.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I've been in and out of HiFi stores and they said I would be crazy to use a Pro amp for my speakers as they are not "high current" and my speakers need a huge amount of current to drive to their full potential.
Thanks for you help.

Welcome.

Are these stores independent or chain stores you visited?
If you have the inclination of going back, ask them why your speakers need huge amounts of current? And how much?
Ask them how much current will that pro amp deliver. and the amp they recommend?
The tower is rated at nominal 8 Ohms and 88 dB spl sensitivity. So, a 1 Watt input will produce 88 dB sound pressure level, loud.
Am curious about their silly answers.

 

[jinjuku]

Ask the salesperson what the difference is between high current and high wattage. See if they can answer off the bat. If they can't then they are simply parroting something that they don't understand.

Wattage is a derivative of Voltage X Amperage. Amps are voltage devices no matter who makes them.

You are potentially looking at 85 lbs of in-efficiency.

Guitar Center has a good return policy. Get the XLS 2002 DriveCore and see what you think.

There have been a lot of people getting the Crown DriveCores and coming away quite surprised.

 

[KEW]

I think you misunderstood what they were saying. I have edited in red below to help clarify

Hey guys first post for me.

I've been in and out of HiFi stores and they said I would be crazy to use a Pro amp for my speakers as they are not "high profit" and my speakers were bought ID, so there was no profit so we need a huge amount of profit to derive your full potential as our customer.

My current setup is SVS ultra towers, centre, bookshelfs & sb13 ultra sub. And the amps I'm looking at are a Crown xls2002 375 watts @8ohm vs Rotel RB1090. 380 watts &8ohm.

Thanks for you help.

Oh!
And welcome to Audioholics!

 

[lovinthehd]

No idea why he told you that, but the fact is, the XLS2002 is rated (525WPC into 2 ohms) to deliver more than enough current to the SVS Ultra towers.

.

FWIW Crown rates the 2002 as 1050 W per ch (granted, a 1khz spec).

 

[Keith raufer]

Thanks for all your responses, loving the humor, I went to a proper HiFi store that actually sell my SVS speakers along with brands like Crown, Rotel, Paradigm, Krix, NAD & Denon "Down in Aus SVS are sold through retailers".

The way he tried to explain it was the difference between horsepower and torque........

Then went on to say a HiFi amp "Gets there quicker" with "power on tap" "for example if you're driving uphill in a 4 cylinder car and you put your foot down you'll get there but no as fast as if you had a V8............

I should have also said he's selling both the Crown amp i'm looking for and has a old demo Rotel for sale....

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious what the price differential in Aus is? Here a Crown 2002 can be had for $500 whereas the Rotel asking is closer to 1000 used now that I look around a bit (think 2000 was list).

 

[Keith raufer]

at the current conversion $700 US

 

[PENG]

FWIW Crown rates the 2002 as 1050 W per ch (granted, a 1khz spec).

Wow, see the trouble with "assuming". In that case that Crown amp is more high current capable than the Rotel.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for all your responses, loving the humor, I went to a proper HiFi store that actually sell my SVS speakers along with brands like Crown, Rotel, Paradigm, Krix, NAD & Denon "Down in Aus SVS are sold through retailers".

The way he tried to explain it was the difference between horsepower and torque........

Then went on to say a HiFi amp "Gets there quicker" with "power on tap" "for example if you're driving uphill in a 4 cylinder car and you put your foot down you'll get there but no as fast as if you had a V8............

I should have also said he's selling both the Crown amp i'm looking for and has a old demo Rotel for sale....

Any amp rated for 4 ohm (edit: obviously only in relative term) is generally considered high current capable, that Crown amp is rated for even 2 ohms (not continuously obviously unless you keep the volume low enough) so don't listen to his bs. lovinthehd's post#8 and 12 put that argument to bed.

 

[PENG]

Current and power are part of the same relationship, throw in a little Watt's Law as well. What the salesman was alluding to was some sort of superior use of the power into low impedance loads (what is usually called a high-current amp). Since the Crown is rated into two ohms, whereas the Rotel is not, the Crown is actually the "higher current" amp. http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators

As to higher noise floor, only complaint I've heard about the Crown XLS series amp is with very high sensitivity speakers (like 110dB) where some hiss was evident.

I was referring to what I thought was his main question about the weights difference between those two amps. You are right though, his post did imply he was doubting about the Crown's current capability.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

The way he tried to explain it was the difference between horsepower and torque........

Then went on to say a HiFi amp "Gets there quicker" with "power on tap" "for example if you're driving uphill in a 4 cylinder car and you put your foot down you'll get there but no as fast as if you had a V8............

I should have also said he's selling both the Crown amp i'm looking for and has a old demo Rotel for sale....

Auto analogies don't fly in electronics. One amp cannot get there quicker than another, period.
Power includes current delivery, inseparable.
As mentioned that crown is a current dump truck, in essence.

 

[lovinthehd]

I was referring to what I thought was his main question about the weights difference between those two amps. You are right though, his post did imply he was doubting about the Crown's current capability.

Salesman's main claim was the current thing....he didn't really explain about his weight question altho so many have heard that nonsense about how to compare an amp/avr with weight despite design differences. I was just taking your advice to explain it more in lay terms in any case....