Help with setting up Audyssey XT on Denon AVR3311

[nevermind]

I recently purchased Denon AVR3311. My current system is:
Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver
Paradigm Monitor 7 towers with matching center and ADP surrounds
SVS PB12-NSD Sub
I bought Denon 3311 with the assumption that it will help me tame down the brightness of my Paradigm speakers with it's room correction. But that did not happen. Infact it makes my system sound thin and brighter than my old Elite receiver. It sounds as if I have my tv speakers all around me. Audessey sets the base very low and if I try to crank it up on the sub or receiver it gets boomy. Any suggestions how can I fix this issue. Other than that the features on this receiver are very nice. The remote operates my Sony Bravia tv and BD Player out of box with no setup. No problems connecting to the network and internet radio.

 

[baniels]

Have you tried both of the target curve options? Flat and standard? I think their standard curve attenuates the upper frequencies, whereas the flat is just flat.

Does enabling Dynamic Volume help with the low end at lower volumes?

 

[highfigh]

I recently purchased Denon AVR3311. My current system is:
Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver
Paradigm Monitor 7 towers with matching center and ADP surrounds
SVS PB12-NSD Sub
I bought Denon 3311 with the assumption that it will help me tame down the brightness of my Paradigm speakers with it's room correction. But that did not happen. Infact it makes my system sound thin and brighter than my old Elite receiver. It sounds as if I have my tv speakers all around me. Audessey sets the base very low and if I try to crank it up on the sub or receiver it gets boomy. Any suggestions how can I fix this issue. Other than that the features on this receiver are very nice. The remote operates my Sony Bravia tv and BD Player out of box with no setup. No problems connecting to the network and internet radio.

There's no way for anyone here to know why without you describing your method of running Audyssey. Make sure the speakers are all wired correctly WRT polarity. When you run the main listening position test, continue if it indicates a phase problem. Do the main position twice, then do the others. Make sure you aren't in the area- stand or sit as far from the speakers and mic as the room will allow.

Audyssey isn't made to tame speaker brightness- it's for room correction. You can, however, use the receiver's equalizer. Try equalization before running Audyssey.

 

[nevermind]

There's no way for anyone here to know why without you describing your method of running Audyssey. Make sure the speakers are all wired correctly WRT polarity. When you run the main listening position test, continue if it indicates a phase problem. Do the main position twice, then do the others. Make sure you aren't in the area- stand or sit as far from the speakers and mic as the room will allow.

Audyssey isn't made to tame speaker brightness- it's for room correction. You can, however, use the receiver's equalizer. Try equalization before running Audyssey.

Yes, all the cables are hooked up correctly. I read thru the Audyssey Setup Guide and watched couple of videos online before starting the setup. I used 8 different positions of mic placement and made sure I was completely out of the way when it was measuing. I wasn’t expecting it to do anything to the speakers rather I was expecting it to sense the high frequencies and adjust them in the target curve. The target curve shows the higher frequency bars raised up instead.

 

[Adam]

I sure hope that you get it to work for you. I've never used Audyssey, but my past two receivers have been Pioneers with auto MCACC, and I'm a huge fan. I always thought that my NHTs sounded bright in my room (like your Paradigms sound to you), and the MCACC has made them sound so much more enjoyable to me.

 

[nezff]

Get you a mic stand cheap from amazon. Seat backs down if possible. Move mic to all 8 positions. Don't take measurements way off to the side or in seats that aren't used much. Try to make a bubble around your mlp and not going too far out in each direction.
Keep mic at ear level.
You can get on Facebook and talk to Chris directly and get help.

 

[nevermind]

I sure hope that you get it to work for you. I've never used Audyssey, but my past two receivers have been Pioneers with auto MCACC, and I'm a huge fan. I always thought that my NHTs sounded bright in my room (like your Paradigms sound to you), and the MCACC has made them sound so much more enjoyable to me.

Thanks
SC-37 is what I'll be getting if 3311 does not work out for me. It will cost me 1 1/2 times 3311 though. So, I have to first see if I can make Denon work for me. I have been reading for almost a month now and a lot of people seem to favor Audyssey

 

[highfigh]

Thanks
SC-37 is what I'll be getting if 3311 does not work out for me. It will cost me 1 1/2 times 3311 though. So, I have to first see if I can make Denon work for me. I have been reading for almost a month now and a lot of people seem to favor Audyssey

Turn Audyssey off and listen to the system. How does it sound?

The 3311 is a great receiver and, again, your complaints have nothing to do with the room's acoustics, if I read the comments correctly. I just did a sound system with a Denon AVR-1712 and little Polk speakers- it sounded good and those speakers don't sound particularly awesome before Audyssey. After, it sounded good. I could listen to it and not be annoyed and the room has carpeted floor (concrete) and drywall on the walls and ceiling. Not much furniture, either.

 

[PENG]

Thanks
SC-37 is what I'll be getting if 3311 does not work out for me. It will cost me 1 1/2 times 3311 though. So, I have to first see if I can make Denon work for me. I have been reading for almost a month now and a lot of people seem to favor Audyssey

Did you position the mic exactly per Audyssey for all 8 positions?
You also have to disable all filters/adjustments on the sub so Audyssey has full control. Use the standard curve, not flat when done.-"

 

[TLS Guy]

I recently purchased Denon AVR3311. My current system is:
Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver
Paradigm Monitor 7 towers with matching center and ADP surrounds
SVS PB12-NSD Sub
I bought Denon 3311 with the assumption that it will help me tame down the brightness of my Paradigm speakers with it's room correction. But that did not happen. Infact it makes my system sound thin and brighter than my old Elite receiver. It sounds as if I have my tv speakers all around me. Audessey sets the base very low and if I try to crank it up on the sub or receiver it gets boomy. Any suggestions how can I fix this issue. Other than that the features on this receiver are very nice. The remote operates my Sony Bravia tv and BD Player out of box with no setup. No problems connecting to the network and internet radio.

I no longer believe programs like Audyssey are of value in response equalization, except perhaps in the bass.

Audyssey makes my good system that does not need Eq sound as if it does when it is applied.

On my recent visit to ATC, I discussed this with Billy Woodman. His reasons for the limitation of these systems is in is white paper on high performance loudspeakers: -

C. Magnitude Response Equalization
Digital signal processing can also be used to equalize a drive
units magnitude response. However, in most cases, response
anomalies will be polar dependent and therefore not equalizable
with a single dimension equalizer. Magnitude equalization should
therefore be applied with great caution.

Programs like Audyssey are single dimension equalizers.

In my view Audyssey is basically only useful for setting time delays, and that it does very well.

I have always known you can't correct a bad speaker with an equalizer. Speakers have to be good and not need equalizers.

Your impression of the Paradigm speakers is the same as mine, and I have not heard a speaker from that company I would give house room to.

 

[nevermind]

Did you position the mic exactly per Audyssey for all 8 positions?
You also have to disable all filters/adjustments on the sub so Audyssey has full control. Use the standard curve, not flat when done.-"

Yes, as I mentioned in my post that I read the audyssey setup guide and went thru couple of videos before starting the setup. I did the setup few times strictly by the book: 8 positions, all filters on sub disabled, turned off the heat in the house, no other ambient noise etc.
Audyssey doesn't seem to like my sub. It measures all the other speakers fairly accurately except the sub. It measures the sub at 15.6' where the actual distance is 12.5'. And sets the trim value for the sub way low at -8.
So, I reset the processer again yesterday and did a manual setup and here are my observations:
To get the same kind of bass(which is not very high) as my old Pioneer 43TX receiver I have to set the sub trim level in Denon at +9 w/sub dial @ 12 o'clock. Whereas with 43TX I had the the trim level at 0 w/sub dial @ 12 o'clock.
To reduce the brightness of my speakers I lowered the highest frequency setting(20khz) by 2 points in the manual eq.
Now everything sounds very similar as my old receiver but less brighter.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, as I mentioned in my post that I read the audyssey setup guide and went thru couple of videos before starting the setup. I did the setup few times strictly by the book: 8 positions, all filters on sub disabled, turned off the heat in the house, no other ambient noise etc.
Audyssey doesn't seem to like my sub. It measures all the other speakers fairly accurately except the sub. It measures the sub at 15.6' where the actual distance is 12.5'. And sets the trim value for the sub way low at -8.
So, I reset the processer again yesterday and did a manual setup and here are my observations:
To get the same kind of bass(which is not very high) as my old Pioneer 43TX receiver I have to set the sub trim level in Denon at +9 w/sub dial @ 12 o'clock. Whereas with 43TX I had the the trim level at 0 w/sub dial @ 12 o'clock.
To reduce the brightness of my speakers I lowered the highest frequency setting(20khz) by 2 points in the manual eq.
Now everything sounds very similar as my old receiver but less brighter.

I'm sure that Audyssey set the time delay (distance) correctly. The distance will not be the measured distance. There are inherent time delays, especially subs if they are ported.

Audyssey also does a good job of setting speaker levels. Mine agrees perfectly with leveling via my studio mics.

I suspect you like you bass high. A lot of speakers are not fully diffraction compensated. These leads people to run subs hot, but it is not natural.

It is in the frequency correction domain, that I think programs like Audyssey are highly suspect.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, as I mentioned in my post that I read the audyssey setup guide and went thru couple of videos before starting the setup. I did the setup few times strictly by the book: 8 positions, all filters on sub disabled, turned off the heat in the house, no other ambient noise etc.
Audyssey doesn't seem to like my sub. It measures all the other speakers fairly accurately except the sub. It measures the sub at 15.6' where the actual distance is 12.5'. And sets the trim value for the sub way low at -8.
So, I reset the processer again yesterday and did a manual setup and here are my observations:
To get the same kind of bass(which is not very high) as my old Pioneer 43TX receiver I have to set the sub trim level in Denon at +9 w/sub dial @ 12 o'clock. Whereas with 43TX I had the the trim level at 0 w/sub dial @ 12 o'clock.
To reduce the brightness of my speakers I lowered the highest frequency setting(20khz) by 2 points in the manual eq.
Now everything sounds very similar as my old receiver but less brighter.

Don't worry about the distance settings after running Audyssey.

How did you orient the mic when you ran this program? Angle it slightly forward, toward the center channel speaker.

A hard reset and firmware update should be done as soon as a receiver of this type comes out of the box.

 

[highfigh]

I'm sure that Audyssey set the time delay (distance) correctly. The distance will not be the measured distance. There are inherent time delays, especially subs if they are ported.

Audyssey also does a good job of setting speaker levels. Mine agrees perfectly with leveling via my studio mics.

I suspect you like you bass high. A lot of speakers are not fully diffraction compensated. These leads people to run subs hot, but it is not natural.

It is in the frequency correction domain, that I think programs like Audyssey are highly suspect.

I haven't run Audussey on a system with great speakers but with smaller ones that are somewhat limited in frequency response, it works pretty well and I suspect that the main goal of the design is to make the time domain issues go away more than EQ the system.

 

[highfigh]

I recently purchased Denon AVR3311. My current system is:
Pioneer Elite 43TX Receiver
Paradigm Monitor 7 towers with matching center and ADP surrounds
SVS PB12-NSD Sub
I bought Denon 3311 with the assumption that it will help me tame down the brightness of my Paradigm speakers with it's room correction. But that did not happen. Infact it makes my system sound thin and brighter than my old Elite receiver. It sounds as if I have my tv speakers all around me. Audessey sets the base very low and if I try to crank it up on the sub or receiver it gets boomy. Any suggestions how can I fix this issue. Other than that the features on this receiver are very nice. The remote operates my Sony Bravia tv and BD Player out of box with no setup. No problems connecting to the network and internet radio.

Post your room's dimensions and the measured distance from your head when sitting at the main listening position. Also, post the distance from your head to the walls and if possible, a diagram of the layout of the room. This might shed some light on the issues you're having.

If your speakers are in a corner, that will cause one set of problems and if they're at different distances from side walls and doorways, you'll have other issues.

 

[ahblaza]

Don't worry about the distance settings after running Audyssey.

How did you orient the mic when you ran this program? Angle it slightly forward, toward the center channel speaker.

A hard reset and firmware update should be done as soon as a receiver of this type comes out of the box.

Hello High,
Could you explain hard reset, forgive my ignorance, thanks my friend.
Jeff

 

[nevermind]

Hello High,
Could you explain hard reset, forgive my ignorance, thanks my friend.
Jeff

He's talking about the 'resetting of microprocessor' Pg.116 of the owner's manual.

 

[PENG]

To reduce the brightness of my speakers I lowered the highest frequency setting(20khz) by 2 points in the manual eq.
Now everything sounds very similar as my old receiver but less brighter.

If you use the manual EQ, Audyssey is turned off. Audyssey meant to deal with your room acoustical issues. You can have Audyssey on and still be able to customize it to suit your taste but you need the pro kit or hire someone to do it, assuming you have the "CI" version.

 

[highfigh]

Hello High,
Could you explain hard reset, forgive my ignorance, thanks my friend.
Jeff

It resets the microprocessor(s) in the receiver, just like rebooting a computer. The main difference between rebooting a computer and a hard reset is that a hard reset erases all of the settings. That's not really a problem, though. You can go into the setup by opening your browser and entering the receiver's IP address, assuming it's connected to your network. If it's not, connect it to the network and do this. You will see three boxes that correspond to the available choices- Main, Zone 2 and Setup. You would go into Setup and look for a button called 'Save'. Click on this and wait for it to save the configuration and save it to your desktop.

Download the manual and go to pg 141 for the instructions to do the hard reset. Open the front panel and use the ON/Standby button to turn the receiver off, then press and hold the that button and the Standard & DSP Simulation buttons simultaneously. Once the display starts to flash, release the buttons. YOu will then need to go to the Setup page, then click on the LOAD button. It will let you find the file (I always save it to my desktop). Once you select the file, it will load your configuration. If you don't mind losing the settings, don't save & load- you'll become more familiar with the receiver if you have to start over.

Read the manual. Yeah, there's a lot to digest but it will save a lot of time setting it up. The section about Audyssey should clear up any issues you have had. Also, the new Denon remote learns commands from other remotes and can act as a universal remote.

 

[nevermind]

Sorry for not posting sooner guys,
Finally after trying for 4 days now I have decided to send Denon 3311 back. I have tried re-running the Audyssey few times again:
- I replaced my camera tripod with floor mounting camera stand.
- Measured the spacing between the camera positions.
- Kept everything out of the way between the mic and speakers.
- Tried tilting the mic a little forward towards the center.
- Placed the mic at the main listening poistion twice.
but wasn't satisfied with the sound of Denon. The surround sound is very nice but it does not do justice to my sub. Also the sound is thinner and brighter than my old Pioneer Elite receiver. I'll look into Onkyo TX-NR809 or Pioneer Elite SC37.
Thanks to all that responded.