Help with selecting a power amp

[ajl7519]

So I have a bit of a dilemma. I was looking to go the AV separate route, but with the technology changing I'm going to hold off on getting a pre/pro until next year.

I just purchased the Aperion Verus Grand Towers, center, and surrounds. Right now I have an Onkyo HT-RC370 which has been rock solid since I purchased it. I definitely want to get an amp to power the towers, but question is would it be better to get a stereo amp for now or just go with a full 7 channel amp?

If was going to go with a 7 channel I'm thinking about the Outlaw Audio 7700 or the Wryed4Sound MMC Series
Multi-Channel Amplifier. If I was going to go with a stereo amp for now and then add a 5 channel later I was looking at the Emotiva XPA-2, Parasound Halo A-21, or maybe the Wryed4Sound ST MKII ST-500.

Thanks in advance.

A

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you really need an amp ?

The RC370 is THX Select2 Plus certified and is 100WPC.

What at is your listening distance and what is your max volume from that distance?

 

[walter duque]

Although your speakers are very efficient I would at least get a power amp for your mains. You do want to get your moneys worth out of them speakers? There is a big difference between 100 watts and 300+ watts of good power. If your looking into Outlaw also check out ATI.

 

[ImcLoud]

I use an emotiva xpa5 which is 200wx5, its such over kill though, 200w for surrounds? Unless there is a pre/pro you have in mind, get a decent 3 channel amp like the xpa3 or 3- outlaw 2200's, ect and then get an avr with preouts {$500 or so}, let that power your surrounds and then be done with it...

I would first make sure you want an amp, get the system all setup and then demo an amp and see if you can tell a difference...

 

[walter duque]

I use an emotiva xpa5 which is 200wx5, its such over kill though, 200w for surrounds?

I can't agree with you on that one. My surrounds are getting 500 watts (4 ohms). IMO rear's are just as important as front's, unless you never really had the experience of listening to a great rear sound stage> you don't know what your'e missing.

 

[ImcLoud]

I am not crazy into HT... For my theater I have 5.2, the surrounds get 200w but never get it, lol, a car door shutting, footprints, ect.. I really almost prefer 3.X but I wired it for 5 and I don't mind them.... I can't imagine the surround material that needs 500w, that is crazy, your system must be LOUD... I watch action movies the loudest, like spiderman 2 the other night, I played it around 95 db and my rears did their thing but the center and the subs do the bulk of the work...

 

[walter duque]

I am not crazy into HT... For my theater I have 5.2, the surrounds get 200w but never get it, lol, a car door shutting, footprints, ect.. I really almost prefer 3.X but I wired it for 5 and I don't mind them.... I can't imagine the surround material that needs 500w, that is crazy, your system must be LOUD... I watch action movies the loudest, like spiderman 2 the other night, I played it around 95 db and my rears did their thing but the center and the subs do the bulk of the work...

I guess that's why you and I are different. If I like a good movie track I like to play it at least at 110 db+, and that's when the surrounds really make a difference, then you know you've got a system. If you would ever have a chance to listen to Alex's (fuzz) system you would change your mind real quick about surrounds. Of course he has a awesome front stage, but your focus would be on the surrounds and rears and that's where the word intense comes in.

 

[ImcLoud]

110db!!!! Yah I don't listen to anything at 110db, lol.. I don't think my ears can tell the difference between good and bad at them volumes.. I have a 2.2 system that I use for outdoor parties, I think total its 8000 watts between the subs and monitors, all pro grade really nice stuff, small concert quality... And outside they sound good, the monitors are 100lbs each and pole mounted lol, but the system sills my 3 acre yard up with LOUD music when wanted... Anyway with that system I can get very loud with out pushing anything to distortion limits, and in the house, at around 112db I couldn't tell you anything about how they sound except loud... And if I compare them to a friend of mines Theil system that goes very loud its the same thing, his system sounds awesome at reasonable levels, defined, smooth, ect.. But when he pushes them up to 110db land I can't tell the difference between them and the pro speakers I have for outside...

I often tell people if you want LOUD, then get anything that is loud because if your ears are like mine you wont know the difference... Cerwin vega 215s are a lot cheaper than most audiophile speakers and they play pretty loud... I wouldn't put them in my house, lol...

Another example, wharfedale Opus 2-3's, these things are loud.. A friend of mine who sells wharfedale gear has a 5.4 system using 2-3's {he had an opus 2-3 reworked {crossover and cabinet} to use as a center channel horizontally, they did a really nice job.. If you are familiar with the opus 2-3's they are 300w, 92+db sens, dual 10", 3 way towers, and they get loud... Then he had 4 sw380 subs in the same room {a nice sub but not like you would expect for $2000+}. Well he played this thing loud, he had around 500watts to each channel and it made some pressure... I could not stand it, the system had to cost {his cost} $30K and when played at normal levels, reference+ it sounded really nice, but when he put in iron man and smashed the volume, it sucked for me, yah it was loud and crazy but I could enjoy the movie better with headphones...

Maybe I have never heard 110db through surrounds on the right system, you going to have to invite me over to have a listen, I'll bring the whiskey and Sfuyadel...

 

[walter duque]

110db!!!! Yah I don't listen to anything at 110db, lol.. I don't think my ears can tell the difference between good and bad at them volumes.. I have a 2.2 system that I use for outdoor parties, I think total its 8000 watts between the subs and monitors, all pro grade really nice stuff, small concert quality... And outside they sound good, the monitors are 100lbs each and pole mounted lol, but the system sills my 3 acre yard up with LOUD music when wanted... Anyway with that system I can get very loud with out pushing anything to distortion limits, and in the house, at around 112db I couldn't tell you anything about how they sound except loud... And if I compare them to a friend of mines Theil system that goes very loud its the same thing, his system sounds awesome at reasonable levels, defined, smooth, ect.. But when he pushes them up to 110db land I can't tell the difference between them and the pro speakers I have for outside...

I often tell people if you want LOUD, then get anything that is loud because if your ears are like mine you wont know the difference... Cerwin vega 215s are a lot cheaper than most audiophile speakers and they play pretty loud... I wouldn't put them in my house, lol...

Another example, wharfedale Opus 2-3's, these things are loud.. A friend of mine who sells wharfedale gear has a 5.4 system using 2-3's {he had an opus 2-3 reworked {crossover and cabinet} to use as a center channel horizontally, they did a really nice job.. If you are familiar with the opus 2-3's they are 300w, 92+db sens, dual 10", 3 way towers, and they get loud... Then he had 4 sw380 subs in the same room {a nice sub but not like you would expect for $2000+}. Well he played this thing loud, he had around 500watts to each channel and it made some pressure... I could not stand it, the system had to cost {his cost} $30K and when played at normal levels, reference+ it sounded really nice, but when he put in iron man and smashed the volume, it sucked for me, yah it was loud and crazy but I could enjoy the movie better with headphones...

Maybe I have never heard 110db through surrounds on the right system, you going to have to invite me over to have a listen, I'll bring the whiskey and Sfuyadel...

You can come down any time and I'll give you the ride of your life (It's like a Ferrari, you'll never forget the ride). It's not like I am too far away from you. You're welcome any time. I've had a few members of AH at my place, you wouldn't be the first one. 5600 watts (4 ohms) in a 5.2 system can pretty intense. Used to run 7.4, but now I am down to 5.2, got a little space restriction here since my rears weight 62#. Next move will be 21" passive band bass subs for the rear and surround rears from the Cinepro Mighty system which are a little smaller and will fit my decor.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/cinepro-mighty-system-theater

 

[ImcLoud]

You can come down any time and I'll give you the ride of your life (It's like a Ferrari, you'll never forget the ride). It's not like I am too far away from you. You're welcome any time. I've had a few members of AH at my place, you wouldn't be the first one. 5600 watts (4 ohms) in a 5.2 system can pretty intense. Used to run 7.4, but now I am down to 5.2, got a little space restriction here since my rears weight 62#. Next move will be 21" passive band bass subs for the rear and surround rears from the Cinepro Mighty system which are a little smaller and will fit my decor.
Cinepro Mighty System Theater | Sound & Vision

Next time I am in NY maybe we can meet up, we go to the city a few times a year. The year before last we did a week in the city with the kids for macy's day parade, stayed rite on 7th, got to stay under a heated awning for the entire parage, it was a good time... but one of the most expensive vacations we ever took, The hotel alone was around $5K!!!! But the kids had a blast and I got to eat at Kennedys like 5 out of the 7 nights, lol... Sadly they are closed now...

 

[ajl7519]

What do you guys think of the Cary Audio MODEL 7.125 7 Channel AMPLIFIER? I'm also considering going the 3 Channel Route for the fronts and stick with the receiver for the surrounds. What 3 channel amps would you recommend? I know Emotiva has the XPA-3 and I could go with the Outlaw Audio monos. Parasound has a 3 channel Halo amp. I can also go with a 3 channel ATI amp, which will let me upgrade to add additional channels later. The ATI1800 series would work.

 

[RichB]

I have used the M2200 and they sound good until they were driver hard with my friends Revel F206's.
This may have something to do with the A/B/G design.

He tried my Parasound A51 and ended up with an A21. The A21 drives them with ease and never gets harsh.
An A31 is a good choice, but pricey. There are deals out there though.

I have also tried the ATI3000 series. ATI builds Outlaw multi-channel amps but I would get an ATI.
They are overbuilt and sound great.

- Rich

 

[JohnnieB]

Depends. If you go pre/pro you will need amps.

The towers are rated to 300 watts. I would safely assume this is peak.

Your current receiver is rated 100 wpc (2 channels driven).

When driving all 7 you're probably closer to 60-65 wpc.

If you run a powered sub (or two) this will take some strain off your receiver. Nevertheless, I would still suggest an amp at least for the front sound stage. 200 wpc 3 channel amp would be a good size IMO.

 

[PENG]

If I like a good movie track I like to play it at least at 110 db+, and that's when the surrounds really make a difference, then you know you've got a system.

I think your 500WPC amp is very marginal.

 

[PENG]

Like Rich said, get the A21. If you do like your movie loud, then add an Outlaw mono block for the center and let the AVR takes care of the surrounds. That assuming you have an AVR that has pre outs

 

[ImcLoud]

I would go either XPA3 or 3 outlaw 2200's, I am always swapping speakers in and out of the system that I use the 2 2200's in and never had an issue, 200w per channel is a good amount for most sound levels and speakers, hence a lot of 200x amps out there... You can get a B stock xpa3 for $699 {you have to call them to order} and that is going to be hard to beat for power/performance to cost ratio...

I personally can not hear the difference between any solid state amp I have heard since i started listening to gear, an amp is an amp, make your decision based on cost, resale value, customer service, warranty, ect. and you will get the most for your money... If you want a different amp for aesthetics, that is fine, I love good looking amps and not everyone likes how one amp looks, I can't stand handles, I don't like a ton of lights, ect... But if you spend more for aesthetics or looks be honest with your self because you will end up disappointed
when you go to a friends house and hear an xpa3 that sounds the same as the amp you spent 4 times as much on...

 

[walter duque]

Next time I am in NY maybe we can meet up, we go to the city a few times a year. The year before last we did a week in the city with the kids for macy's day parade, stayed rite on 7th, got to stay under a heated awning for the entire parage, it was a good time... but one of the most expensive vacations we ever took, The hotel alone was around $5K!!!! But the kids had a blast and I got to eat at Kennedys like 5 out of the 7 nights, lol... Sadly they are closed now...

If you take 84 when you go to NY I am not far from Newburgh. You're welcome anytime. (BTW after 8 pm don't pay much attention to my posts that's when the Guinness starts kicking in)

 

[cpp]

I have used the M2200 and they sound good until they were driver hard with my friends Revel F206's.
This may have something to do with the A/B/G design.

He tried my Parasound A51 and ended up with an A21. The A21 drives them with ease and never gets harsh.
An A31 is a good choice, but pricey. There are deals out there though.

I have also tried the ATI3000 series. Although they build Outlaw multi-channel amps, I would get an ATI.
They are overbuilt and sound great.

- Rich

It's hard to beat the ATI. My 2002 is enroute to be upgraded to a 2005. I've compared my ATI to products like PASS, Cary, Bryston and the ATI for the money is really hard to beat

 

[Cos]

I would also suggest ATI just based on your post

"I can also go with a 3 channel ATI amp, which will let me upgrade to add additional channels later."

Anytime you can buy something with the future in mind, I would suggest doing that. If you are planning to expand the ATI AMP gives you the best and probably least expensive way to just add channels. While I am 100% satisfied with my Halo amps, if I do decide to take the plunge of adding 4 ceiling speakers I have to buy another A51 to get the four channels. If I had ATI I would just be adding channels to my existing amp. A side benefit would be less space of adding a second amp if you decide to add the extra channels. A51 and the A21 are Beasts.

 

[ajl7519]

I would also suggest ATI just based on your post

"I can also go with a 3 channel ATI amp, which will let me upgrade to add additional channels later."

Anytime you can buy something with the future in mind, I would suggest doing that. If you are planning to expand the ATI AMP gives you the best and probably least expensive way to just add channels. While I am 100% satisfied with my Halo amps, if I do decide to take the plunge of adding 4 ceiling speakers I have to buy another A51 to get the four channels. If I had ATI I would just be adding channels to my existing amp. A side benefit would be less space of adding a second amp if you decide to add the extra channels. A51 and the A21 are Beasts.

I really like the Halo amps, but yeah, if I get a the 3-channel version I would then have to add 2 stereo versions later (though that would cost more compared the A51 plus the A21). I have been looking for used deals on the Halo amps, but the problem is the warranty is not transferable. I can always buy a SquareTrade warranty after the purchase, but that would probably be a few hundred dollars more.

Unless I can find a good deal on the Halo, I'm leaning towards the AT2000 with 3 channels, which is about $2600. The Additional channels are $300 more, which is not bad at all. ATI warranty is 7 years which is pretty solid.