Help with In-Ceiling Speakers

[AMyles]

I am new to this forum and I dont know a lot about audio systems. That said, I am trying to put together my first home theater. Reading the posts in this forum has been extremely helpful.

I am finishing my basement and one room is the HT room. The room is approximately 17x17. I have a gas fireplace in the center of one wall and will be putting a 52" Samsung LCD over the firstplace. The fireplace and mantel is 24" in depth and thus the TV will 24" into the room as well. The listening point will be a couch directly facing the TV approx 13-15 feet away.

The ceiling is 8ft and will be a suspended ceiling with 2x2 tiles (the 8ft includes the suspended ceiling as the current open ceiling is approx 8'6" and the drop will be about 5" or so).

I plan on installing in-ceiling speakers (I understand that is not ideal for sound although that is the "compromise" I arranged to have my man cave).

I have read all the posts I can find in this forum regarding in-ceiling speakers (again, extremely helpful) and I still have the following questions:

1. First question, 5.1 or 7.1? Is my room size too small for 7.1? I was thinking of setting up a 5.1 first and them perhaps upgrading to 7.1 in the future. I understand that I wouldnt have to move any of my 5.1 in ceiling speakers for the 7.1 setup but merely add to speakers to the sides of the listening area.

2. My budget is approx $1,500 for speakers, receiver and subwoofer. I have been researching the speaker issue (I havent really looked at receivers and subwoofers yet) and I think I have it narrowed down to Speakercraft, Niles and Boston Acoustics (although I think BA may be out of my price range).

I was thinking 7" speakers as 8" speakers would be too big for the space..agree?

Also, as stated above I am not very sophisticated when it come to audio issues so a system that merely sounds good is fine with me...based on that I was thinking low end speakers from a good speaker company. Also, I would use the speakers almost exclusively for a home theater rather than music.

Regarding Niles, I was thinking the lower end speakers (CM730DS for LR, CM 730DSc and CM730DSfx). I think that will cost approx $800. Moving up to the CM750s would cost approx $1,220).

Speakercraft I was thinking of the AIM7 Twos or Threes whichever I could find in my price range (use the same speaker for all 5 loudspeakers).

3. Is there any problem with installing in-ceiling speakers in a drop ceiling? I havent found any questions regarding this issue in the forum.

4. Do I need back boxes for the speakers and does the drop ceiling issue create more of a need for back boxes?

My ceiling is insulated with mineral wool which I understand is a decent sound proofing material and the drop ceiling will hang down another five inches or so (because of pipes etc) below the rafters so I have quite a bit of room to install the speakers considering the space between the rafters plus the additional 5 inches.

Sorry for the length of the email and I certainly appreciate any additional information you can provide.

Thanks in advance,

AMyles.

 

[adk highlander]

Hello AMyles and welcome to the forum.

I think you are headed in the right direction in looking at speakercraft, niles and I would also add Sonance to the list to demo. I'm supprised that you think the BA speakers would be too pricy. I have a couple of sets of BA's for my whole house system that I purchased on epray for a very reasonable price.

The one thing I would make sure of is that the speakers can be rotated to point toward your listening area. The AIMs from speakercraft are fully adjustable and the Sonancy symphony's are as well. Many of the BA's are designed with the angle set and just need to be mounted pointing the correct direction.

As far as backboxes I found that making a "box" out of insulation worked very well. I was in the process of purchasing backboxes from a dealer for my Sonance speakers and there were some fit issues and he said that in most of his installations he just creates a box out of fiberglass insulation and I must say it works well.

Would it be possible for you to do inwalls for the front three instead of inceiling? You will get a much better soundstage and when you paint the grills they will hide quite well.

I would really try and use most of your budget on the speakers. There is really a sound quality difference when you get up to the better in ceiling/in wall speakers. Going from an inexpensive audiosource in ceilings to the BA's was a huge difference.

Oh and I would do 5.1 so you can get better speakers as well. For a sub there are a few guys selling some nice DIY, Outlaw and SVS subs on the forum so check them out for a good buy.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Look at Jamo or RBH

My company's used both of these brands in-ceiling L/C/R speakers in projects such as yours. Both brands offer a fine quality sound & have two price points that should fit your budget. I prefer the Jamo 3-way speaker better at their price point over the 2-way RBH MC series which is priced the same @ $300 each. If your budget gets tight the RBH "A" series is a great lower cost option.

All prices quoted are MSRP. A deal should be able to be gotten fairly easily.

Jamo System:

Front L/C/R - Jamo 6.52A12 $299 ea. ($900 total)
http://jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=5927&M=Shop&PID=17173&ProductID=17890

Rear Surrounds - Jamo 6.5A2 $359 per pair
(could save a little $ going with 6.5cs @ $229 per pair)
http://jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=5927&M=Shop&PID=17173&ProductID=16861

Sub: Atlantic Technology 642e $1060... get a great deal here for $400ish...
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51315
(Shameless plug, yes... but a good deal none the less!)

RBH System:

Front L/C/R - RBH A-615L $170 ea. ($510 total)
http://rbhsound.com/a615l.shtml

Rear Surrounds - RBH A-615 $290
http://rbhsound.com/a615.shtml

Sub - See Sub from Jamo System


Either system can be driven easily with something like a Marantz SR4003 @$550 MSRP

Hope this helps!

 

[AMyles]

adk highlander:

Thanks much for the quick response. I will begin to research the Sonance brand as well. The problem I have with a front in-wall setup is that we are installing cultured stone on the walls to each side of the fireplace. Thus, my only option for in-wall would be on the bumpout which already includes the fireplace and the display and thus there is little room for speakers. I could do in-wall on the side walls but I would think that would really mess up the soundstage.


Regarding BA, I was looking at some of the "hidden theater" speakers which were running around $500+ each (DSI495 etc.).

Also, I noticed that Mirage makes a product called the Omnican which looks promising. What I like about it is that it has a backbox included and it hangs slightly below the ceiling which I would think would be good because the ceiling would not be interfering with the sound waves.

Do you have any thoughts on the Mirage Omnican product and also do you think I will have any issues installing speakers in a drop ceiling?

Thanks again,

AMyles

 

[adk highlander]

I don't know much about Mirage speakers but they have been spoken well of on the forum.

It will be no problem installing them in a drop ceiling. My surround back speakers are inceiling and I used the technique I described to do the "back box". There is a link in my signature to my build process and how it turned out.

I would also take a look at the info IntheIndustry posted especially the subs he is selling for a song. For $400 bucks the Atlantic sub would be a good deal. I also looked at the RBH inwalls as an option but did not end up going with them.

I will find my model numbers to the BA speakers I have and post them after lunch. Getting hungry.

 

[AMyles]

Intheindustry, thanks much for the additional speaker and component suggestions. I will definitely check out the Jamo and RBH products and get back to you regarding the subwoofer (I havent started my research on subs but that sounds like a great deal).

adk highlander, thanks for the additional information and your completed HT room looks awesome.

AMyles